Our Dead Dads
The concept of Our Dead Dads was born through the daily discussions of seven men who share bonds of blood, friendship and all having lost their fathers. Nick Gaylord, the show’s host, shares his life experiences with his deceased father while exploring the complications and realities of that relationship. Life is intense, grief and loss come in many forms, and no parent-child relationship is black and white, which is why this show touches on all shades of grey.
Join Nick for candid conversations with his three brothers and three of his lifelong friends, along with other special guests who discuss their experiences with loss, grief, laughter, and moving forward. Nothing is off-limits here. Nick learned after his father's passing that he couldn't process what he was going through alone and sought the help of a therapist, who helped him to let go of his anger toward his father. Looking back, he realized just how many people are being crushed under the weight of grief, loss, and in some cases, anger.
Nick's mission through Our Dead Dads is to offer a platform for anyone who needs or wants to tell their story, to have that opportunity. He also hopes to reach many more who need to talk but don't know how to start the conversation, hopeful that by listening to these stories, they will be able to start talking with someone.
Nick has always sought to help others and to make everyone around him laugh. Along with his brothers and friends, he has frequently used humor to get through the hardest times in their lives, and hopefully, you will permit yourself to do the same. Get ready for an emotional deep dive. Nick has a lot to say and so do his guests. He's here for you and ready to help. Everyone has been through trauma, grief, and loss. Now, along with Nick and his guests, everyone will get through it together.
Nick is changing the world one damaged soul at a time. Welcome to Our Dead Dads.
Our Dead Dads
028 - Exploring Fatherhood and the Cycles of Life with Eric Piragnoli
When you've faced profound loss at a young age, how do you navigate the complexities of grief, trauma, and personal growth? Eric Piragnoli joins us to unpack his lifelong journey after losing his father at just six years old. From unprocessed emotions to the healing power of humor, Eric shares how he found solace and strength in community support, illustrated by the unique bond formed through an ongoing English muffin pizza thread with friends. This episode is a reminder that while time may not heal all wounds, a shared understanding can create a safe haven for those feeling isolated in their sorrow.
Our conversation also delves into the intricate web of family dynamics, exploring how Eric reconciled the presence of his stepfather with the cherished memory of his biological father. Through stories of divorce, reconciliation, and the anticipation of a grandchild, we celebrate new beginnings and reflect on the cyclical nature of life. Eric’s candid reflections on fatherhood and personal growth emphasize the importance of confronting long-standing grief and emotional triggers to build stronger family bonds.
Laughter, vulnerability, and heartfelt discussions await as we explore the necessity of acknowledging and processing emotions to prevent future upheaval. We touch on the benefits of seeking professional help and fostering a supportive community, encouraging listeners to embrace vulnerability and emotional growth. As we weave through tales of humor and introspection, this episode invites you to join a compassionate community that champions healing and personal development.
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Hello and welcome to Our Dead Dads, the podcast where we normalize talking about grief, trauma loss and moving forward. I'm your host, my name is Nick Gaylord, and if this is the first time you're joining me, then welcome to the show. If you're a regular listener, then welcome back. For everybody listening, thank you so much for the support and thank you for making this show part of your day. The best way that you can continue to support the show is by listening, sending in your feedback on the show's Facebook, instagram and TikTok accounts, where you can also see clips of the interviews and some live videos, and, most importantly, please spread the word about the show. Everybody deals with grief. We are all in this together and the best thing that any of us can do is to support each other through that grief. Make sure you're following the podcast on your favorite listening platform and tell everybody that you know to do the same. Give us a five-star review and, by the way, if you don't know how to leave a five-star review, go to the homepage of OurDeadDadscom, scroll down and it'll show you how to do it step by step. I really hope that you enjoyed last week's conversation with Kyle Jetzel.
Speaker 1:We are at episode number 28 today and my friend Eric Pieragnoli stops by to share a lifetime of grief with everyone. Eric lost his dad when he was only six and has pretty much no memory of his dad other than the pictures and the memories of everyone else talking about him. And now, at almost 50, eric is still plagued with grief, and grief that he admits he really hasn't begun to process. Today we start to peel back some of the layers of the onion to see what we can find out, to talk about some of the reasons and the triggers for the emotional overflow and discuss the fact that, no matter how long it's been since the loss of a loved one, the grief doesn't end just because the calendar keeps turning. Eric and I would also like to send out a very special shout-out to Team English Muffin Pizza, and I know you're probably wondering what the hell that's all about or what that has to do with this interview. Eric and I have known each other since junior high school, so of course we have a lot of mutual friends. Back in December of 2012, our mutual friend, phil Marino, posted on his Facebook page asking where he went wrong with his kids because they don't like English muffin pizzas. Since then, that post has kind of taken on a life of its own. 12 years and 35,000 plus comments later, the thread remains alive and well with some of my biggest fans and weekly listeners. So to Phil, eric, donato, cheryl, patty, gina and the rest of our English muffin pizza lovers, and even Rob, who prefers sour cream and lasagna over English muffin pizzas. Thank you all for the overwhelming support, and here's showing all of you some love. Before we get started, I would like to thank you again for listening, for your feedback and for engaging with the show. Don't forget to follow the show's social media pages on TikTok, facebook and Instagram.
Speaker 1:As you know, my goal is to normalize talking about grief, loss and trauma, which are topics that are not easy for most of us to talk about, but they're topics that everybody should be discussing more Not only discussing them, but not feeling like they're taboo topics. Time may not heal all wounds, but keeping everything bottled up inside doesn't heal anything. Together, we are building a community for others to have a safe space to talk about their stories and their feelings, and for anyone who may not yet be ready to talk, just to listen to others and know that nobody is alone in this path. That is why I say we are a community and I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 1:If you have a story of grief and loss to share and might want to be considered as a future guest on Our Dead Dads, go to OurDeadDadscom. Go to the Contact Us link, select Be a Guest, fill out the form, send it in and you just might be able to tell your story and carry on this mission of helping ourselves and helping so many others. And now it's time to get started, so let's welcome Eric to the show. Please enjoy this episode and stick around for the end when I will tell you about next week's episode. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:All right, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing good. It's a Saturday morning. You're my third call this morning. It's been a long day already Been up since 3.30.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what the hell is that all about? I don't know, man, my mom and my brother have the same problem At a certain age. We just don't sleep. It's obnoxious, it is I sleep.
Speaker 1:I just don't sleep enough. Usually five, five and a half hours is pretty much about all I get at night, Sometimes six if I'm lucky is pretty much about all I get at night, sometimes six.
Speaker 2:if I'm lucky, if I do melatonin or shot a night bull or something like that, I get about five hours straight. But if I just try to go to bed it's two hours wake up an hour wake up. Two hours, wake up. And I just finally get annoyed and I just stay up. Yeah, I hear that I miss the days of. Oh my god, 2 pm Slept all day.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, 2 pm, holy shit.
Speaker 2:I remember when we were younger right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, when we were younger. The last time I slept until 2 pm was when I didn't go to bed until 10 am.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but it was sleep like legit sleep. Oh, it was, it was legit sleep. I remember we had a. We were in high school. I went to a party over at a buddy's house. We started a party on Friday night. It went all through Saturday into Sunday and me and my buddy Ricky, we were sitting on the floor leaning against the wall in one of the rooms right Party's going on. Then we wake up it's the next day and the party's still going on and we had no idea it was full day next. So I missed those days Sleep was golden.
Speaker 1:I never had any parties that lasted three days, or I never went to any parties that lasted three days, but that sounds pretty epic it was pretty epic.
Speaker 2:I didn't have an extravagant party life, but that was one of my tops. That was one of the best ones. Well, you know the kid whose dad it was. His dad worked nights and weekends.
Speaker 1:House was empty, nobody's around to stop you. Those are the days. So what's happening? Anything good.
Speaker 1:Just another Saturday. I had an interview with a lady this morning. She is currently in Scotland, and then after that I had a first call with a lady that was actually in the podcasting class that I took a few months ago. She is in California, she's a pilot, so her schedule is a little bit crazy to navigate no pun intended, but she's usually pretty busy during the week and she said I'm up early in the morning, you want to do that? And I said I'm going to be up anyway. So yeah, we did that call and had a little bit of editing and doing other podcast stuff and just keep on going on the weekend.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice, I'm going to spend my day in the garage. There you go, camping stuff together. The weekend of the 30th. We're all going up to the rim on the Grand Canyon. There's about 30 of us.
Speaker 1:Damn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one of those you know the more the merrier, kind of thing. Oh, totally, you know. So it's all dogs, kids, music, food games, drinking.
Speaker 1:You know, when we were in New York we went camping all the time and Kim had never been camping before we met and then she knew that I loved camping. You know, being an Eagle Scout, I camped all the time and I really got her into it. We went so many times. We didn't go a single time when we were in Texas and I hate that. We haven't gone camping since we've been here. So we really haven't been camping in eight years, which is a damn tragedy for me because of how much I love it.
Speaker 1:So we need to get some camping going and I don't know, maybe we'll have to find our way out to Arizona.
Speaker 2:I mean it's nice here because the camping changes, because you've never been to Arizona so you don't know. But I didn't know this. When I first got here I thought it was desert. You know, never thinking, right. I've watched Tombstone and all those movies. There's mountains in those movies, right. Yeah, never thought about it. Grand Canyon, big Hole Mountains, right. So out of Grand Canyon, big hole mountains, right. So we rolled in thinking it was a desert and then we started getting out and about. We were camping and it was some you know desert climate camp. And then you go up north and it's pine trees. It's like being out east on Long Island. Then you go up a little further and it's like the plains, like with wheat. You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:We had a flock of sheep come through the campsite last year. Wow, we were sleeping and all of a sudden you just hear the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, the bells. They would have those bells on them. We all kind of come out of the tents and the RVs and stuff. What the hell's going on? There's got to be like 200 sheep and two sheepdogs. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. Oh, I would have loved to have seen that it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:I got some pictures. I'll send them to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please do when you go camping this time. Send me some pictures of those too. Like I said, we really need to do some more camping. I really badly miss it. It's just a nice escape.
Speaker 2:It's a nice time. Definitely I was going to get all Yankeed up for you today. You're such a diehard Mets fan, I was like eh.
Speaker 1:Well, Kim would have appreciated that. I knew. I liked her for a reason yeah, she's all right, we'll keep her for a little bit. One of our running jokes is that we renew our vows every two weeks. If things go south, then we can split up. You know, anybody can recover from two weeks.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's like a new relationship over and over again. That's right. The stage never ends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, meanwhile, 18 and a half years later, that's a lot of two weeks, lynn says it all the time.
Speaker 2:She says it all the time. I tell her you know what? I didn't do any honeymoons with you. I said well, we started dating, I told you exactly what I was, who I was and I behaved according. So at this point, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Speaker 1:That's right. You have no one to blame but yourself. You had every opportunity to run away. You chose not to. You're fucked. There was no hidden agenda. You didn't sell her a bill of goods that was not legitimate.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. I mean, the bill of goods has gotten bigger over time, but you know, that's what frequent does that's?
Speaker 1:okay, there's always a little extra room on that bill to throw a little bit more on there, I'm trying not to honestly. Yeah, you and me both. How's that working for you?
Speaker 2:Probably about as well as it's working for me, you know, we were down a bunch of weight for a while and then she had her back fusion, you know, and that put her down for a couple months and then, right after the recovery of that, they decided they had to do the full hysterectomy and then we finally started getting moving again. And then everyone got sick in the house, went on for like a month. She ended up getting out of the hospital last month. So you know, it's been difficult at best. So we're hoping to get back to it here soon.
Speaker 1:You will, one thing at a time. She needs to make sure she's healthy. Once she's healthy, then you can be active, you can lose weight, you can have fun, yeah.
Speaker 2:We just did walks every night after dinner Walked around the neighborhood. It's amazing how quick five miles can go when you just chit-chat and walk around the neighborhood. Oh yeah, We'll hopefully get back to that again.
Speaker 1:You will. It's going to take a minute, but you will. I don't know that this conversation is going to burn a lot of calories, so it's not like we're going to lose very much weight from having this talk, but I don't know man Might shed a lot of emotional baggage. Right, that's right. You might lose five to 10 pounds in emotional baggage and tears, who knows?
Speaker 2:Right, well, I hope I can keep it together.
Speaker 1:Hey, and if you don't, that's okay too. That's what this is all about. Shit in life and unfortunately, you've got quite a bit to process. You've got a lot to talk about and we're here for it. We're going to power through it, we're going to get through it, and if it's a good time, it's a good time. If it's not such a good time, well, we'll deal with that too.
Speaker 2:That's right. Dark humor is my friend.
Speaker 1:Dark humor is everybody's friend and if it's not their friend, it should be. I'm a big fan of dark humor. Coping, that's right. It is a great coping mechanism. Let's see what we can accomplish. I'm sure we'll have a little bit of fun along the way. But I think it's time to dive in and we're going to hear Eric's story.
Speaker 1:So I've known you for quite a long time. I don't remember exactly when we met. I'm pretty sure it was sometime in junior high school, I want to say probably seventh or eighth grade somewhere around there. So we've known each other probably about 35 years, and I knew at some point early on that your dad had passed. I did not know until very recently that you lost him as young as you were and you were six years old when he died.
Speaker 1:Obviously we didn't talk about that kind of stuff when we were growing up, so I didn't realize how many of us knew what trauma was about, especially those of us who didn't really experience a lot of it, myself included. I didn't have a lot of trauma and grief and loss that I dealt with. There was a little bit, but not a ton, especially not that close. So it wasn't really something that was fully discussed and, just because of the way society was, probably wasn't something that you were openly discussing with a ton of people, and that's totally okay.
Speaker 1:Now we live in a different society and now I'm doing a podcast all about grief and loss and all about navigating the hard shit in life, and you told me that you wanted to do this interview and dive into all of your baggage that you've been carrying for a lot of years. So this is the time let's get into it, and quite a lot. Yeah, let's start wherever you're comfortable starting. I know that you don't have a lot of memories about your dad, but let's start early on and I'd love to know what you do remember either of your dad his dealing with his loss as a kid growing up, all of it.
Speaker 2:You know, to kind of wrap it up, you know, when we were kids we didn't know grief, right? I mean, even when people died around us you didn't really acknowledge it to the extent you do as an adult, right? So you know, dad passed away when I was six, grandmother passed when I was 11, right. And I remember at my grandmother's funeral, right, me and my cousin eric were in the back playing hand slaps like they put your hands away and before they slap you we're in the back of the funeral home doing that because you didn't comprehend what it was yeah like you knew it was gone.
Speaker 2:You knew people were crying around you, but it didn't really click. As you get older, you look back on things and you say shit, I guess that's what was going on.
Speaker 2:And I guess, my first realization as an adult. When I was going through my divorce and my child custody battles and all that stuff, I started having problems with my heart again. You know, I started passing out all kinds of stuff and then, looking back, I never knew it was related to it. Apparently, I've been having these anxiety, panic, stress attacks since I was young, after my dad passed away. No one ever knew that it was from that, but I was, I think, fifth grade and I was in the backyard, heart started racing. Mom found me in the lawn. So hospitals, all that kind of stuff, there's nothing wrong with you. So halter monitors, all kinds of stuff, nothing wrong with you. High school same kind of thing. As an adult, same kind of thing. And then as I got, when I got to my divorce stuff I realized after talking to some other doctors and specialists and stuff, it was a stress mechanism. It was shutting me down as I got to a point I couldn't deal and all of those times those things happened it was a traumatic time in my life.
Speaker 2:Dad passed away divorce this that it was traumatic stuff each time.
Speaker 1:The time that your mom found you in the backyard, what do you think was attributing?
Speaker 2:that I think at the time it was right around you remember elementary school, I mean, everything was Boy Scouts and father-son camping and father-son fishing and father-son canoeing and father-son this. I didn't have a father. So watching my friends dip out and do all those things and you know my mom was awesome. She would openly try to go right and want to go, but just as a child, you're like no, you can't. Like you're not a dad, you can't go, you can't. You know what I mean. So you deal with all that without knowing you're dealing with. Thankfully, I had some pretty decent dads on the block and friends and stuff and there's a couple of dads that to boy scouts, things with the church it was called the royal rangers, you know right, and jimmy's dad took me to those things. And then steven's father picked me up for other things and you know, so I got to do pinewood Derbies and all that kind of stuff with the men.
Speaker 2:It helped, right, it made you feel normal, although you didn't know you were not normal. Right, it's just I wasn't there.
Speaker 1:So you know it was a lot.
Speaker 2:And then not knowing that you're grieving, right While you're grieving, learning stuff as you get older, my mom had, you know, you flashback and you look and you say, wow, you know, I think I told you this. I had, I remember some guy coming to the house and sitting downstairs with me and my brother and stuff and I'm playing Legos and Play-Doh and whatever else and of course he's having conversations with me, but you're just playing, like you're just, you know, just hanging about.
Speaker 1:You're just a walk from the ride at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you look back on it and realize that it was actually therapy sessions. So I had mentioned it to my mother one day. I said you know, there was some dude just to come to the house, some old guy, and I was probably 18 at the time and she says she goes. Yeah, she says you remember that. Huh, I said yeah, she says well, he's a therapist.
Speaker 2:Therapist and I guess as young as we were, my mom was young too. We were. My mom was young too. My dad died when he was 36. Mom was about the same age and she says, yeah, we had to have someone talk to you. And she says she kept talking about going to heaven to see that. So you know the realization of things you said as a child. Like you know it's irrational. Now, right, you said well, of course no child's going to know how to get to quote, unquote heaven, right?
Speaker 2:As a six-year-old, seven-year-old, eight-year-old, whatever, but it was odd, you know odd growing up like that. Mom was really strong, though, so I mean we never wanted for anything.
Speaker 2:We weren't rich like the rest of us, right, we were all kind of getting by, our wardrobes kind of proved that pretty clearly, right. But I was never hungry. I was never, you know, without clothes or food or shelter or love. But again, having a strong mom is great, but it's not the same as having both. So as you get older, your friends lose their parents and they're devastated and you're looking at them and the only thing you in your mind, you're thinking you had 15 years with that guy, well, you know, or your mom or your dad. You should be thankful, right. Well, ok, who says that you shouldn't be grieving? It's different, but it's still the same. But as a child you don't understand it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never grieved really. I had my emotional breakdowns, emotional outbursts, things like that, but I never really ever did anything with it. What do you remember of your dad? Very little, mostly memories from everybody else. I do remember we moved out to Long Island from the Bronx. Then I do remember one winter I think it might've been the winter before he passed, maybe I don't know, but I don't know. If you remember they used to have those plastic igloo blocks you could make with snow. Oh yeah, we had those, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I remember my father making a neighborhood. I remember him yanking us around the yard and stuff in that long eight foot you know plastic orange sleigh, you know, as once I'm talking about the ones we used to hide behind the bicycles and drive around the neighborhood, I sure do and then big stuff. And I don't know if I remember these things as much as I remember the memory. Someone might have told me you know, because you got photos and then you got a recollection and you kind of piece it together yourself, I think in some cases, because I certainly don't remember the sandbox being built etc. But I remember using it. But I remember seeing a picture of my dad and my mom's stepdad in the yard with me and my brother. So in my mind, oh yeah, I remember that, I remember that, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember him building that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember all that I remember the talks, and I don't know that.
Speaker 2:I do you know, so it's very difficult to put a finger on it. Is it my memory or is it what I've built from everybody else's memory and pictures?
Speaker 1:So you know a little difficult.
Speaker 2:That way you don't really know what's yours or somebody else's. Yours or somebody else's? How did your dad pass? Well, the short version. He had juvenile diabetes since he was eight. I don't know that he necessarily died from that, but he definitely died because of complications not taking care of himself, you know, which was kind of odd because he worked at the hospital, you know. So he knew better, you know. But as he grew into these diseases and stuff, kidney failure started happening. He was legally blind, I think. My mom said he'd lost a couple of toes from infection and things like that.
Speaker 1:So the last year of his life was complete, just decreased everything.
Speaker 1:And then hospitals constantly Diminished quality of life. Yeah, so we know what it was like as a child and you've already said that a lot of the memories that are there some might be yours, but you think a lot of them are kind of combined, shared memories. So now, as you get older, you're living your life without your dad. You go to high school, you go to college, you get married, you start a family. How was all of that without a prominent? You said that you had other male figures in your life that were kind of like a second dad to you, but obviously we all know that nobody can replace a mom or a dad. What was life like in your mind? What was it like for you becoming a husband, becoming a father?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, I guess I'll I'll tell you kind of the gist and I, I think you and I kind of spoke about this in the past, but I know it's a somewhat irrational mindset, right, but growing up I always just assumed I was gonna die early, right, right. Irrational, yeah, because I mean completely irrational because my aunts and uncles and grandparents were all still alive, right, right. So irrational concept, but in my mind there were steps I had to take before I ran out of time. So I think that contributed to my quick choice in my first marriage, which was a disaster, right. And because I felt like I was, I went to high school and right out of high school I went to college.
Speaker 2:Right out of college I got a career. Right out of the career I got married. Right out of married. We had children, you know, and it was that fast. I mean I was married by the time I was 21,. You know, on my home I was 24 kids at 25. I mean it was done, it was all set already, with the anticipation I wouldn't be here much longer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you were convinced that your life was going to be cut short. And you know again, irrational.
Speaker 2:And I think the only thing that kept me from completely spinning out was, you know, my mom being there and being as strong as she was my whole life, and then my stepfather came into my life just mid high school.
Speaker 1:I want to say it's about 14, 15 ish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right around there, I think, maybe 15, 16, somewhat that effect. Okay, and what's your relationship like with him? Oh, it's awesome, awesome, hands down, just what you would have wanted. Right, he didn't try to take my father's place. There was no weirdness about it. Right, he was there, he was supportive, he was loving, he did all the things that a dad should do and for a little while, I called him my stepdad, my stepdad. This is Tom, this is my stepdad. But after a little while, it was just one of those things where, after talking to some pretty good people in my life and I don't know if you remember Ms Pandalakis, she was a guidance counselor at high school- she was one of my favorite people in high school.
Speaker 2:Well, she was very close with my family, very close to my mom, so she wasn't my guidance counselor, but of course, you know, when you have a friend of the family, these are the people you talk to. And I had a conversation with her one day, which was you know basically how you do them kind of stuff, and I brought up my stepdad and I said, you know, I feel like I'm cheating my stepfather out of something he deserves, and then I feel like I feel guilty taking something from my actual father, you know, because it's not here. But then you realize, like after talking to him and stuff, you realize it's not, you're not cheating anyone, right? I have a love for my father and then I have love for my stepfather, right. And if you asked me now, like most of my close friends know that my father's passed away, there's no doubt about it, and then I have my tattoo from my dad. I have pictures of him everywhere, the whole gamut.
Speaker 2:But if you asked me today, if you came to we came to florida to visit and I brought you to meet my parents, you know, see my parents. I would introduce you, as you know. Hey, nick, this is my mom and dad, because I think it's, I think it's an earned thing. I think more than one person can have it, and I didn't feel that way in the beginning. Right, you're nervous, scared, I'm going to give that up. That that you know that title is a big deal, yeah.
Speaker 2:So being said, it was one of those things where the rational thought error which I'm going to die soon and then benefit of such a tremendous stepfather in my life the rationality wasn't there. It was kind of a fight to the finish, you know. So as I got older and I became a dad and I did all the stuff, he was there for all of it. He was loving to my kids and just overall great, basically because of him.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that also not a negative on him, right, but a negative in the fact that, because he was so good to me, I had a lot of years of sadness of my actual dad, right, but I never had the need to look at the grief part of it, the trauma part of it, because I didn't, I wasn't alone, right, but I never had the need to look at the grief part of it, the trauma part of it, because I didn't, I wasn't alone, right, I didn't. That space wasn't empty anymore, right. So I think it extended my grief longer, right To where I didn't deal with it longer Now that I'm getting into my almost 50 years old, right, and I got a son that's married, ready to have a baby, another son who's grown. Now you look at that stuff and you say what, if I'm not here, then that trauma comes back and the grief comes back and you can't watch a commercial without losing your shit.
Speaker 1:I can understand what you're saying with the irrationality of thinking that you're not going to live past 36. I've talked to a lot of people who lost siblings or parents at a young age. I have one friend who lost a mom and a sister. Actually I think they were both 36 when they died, 36 or 38. She also thought that for a while that she wasn't going to live past that age, and now she almost 20 years past that.
Speaker 1:So again, I can understand how you feel that's irrational early on. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't know that it's entirely irrational because when you have close people that don't make it past that point, then sure you do have reason to suspect that you might not, even if you have relatives who are well past that point. With regards to your stepdad, at what point you have told me in the past and you mentioned again here that you don't refer to him as your stepdad you call him dad. When did that start? Did you basically say I want to call you? Like? Was it after the conversation with Miss P? Did you tell him I don't want?
Speaker 2:to call you dad. No, I don't. Honestly, I don't think the conversation with him and I ever really happened. I think it just kind of started because I actually call him Pop. When I call him, I'm like hey, pop, and he says hey, kid, it's just how it happened, naturally, natural progression. Right Now, of course, when I introduce him, I don't say hey, this is my mom, this is my Pop't say you know, hey, this is my mom, this is my pop.
Speaker 1:I say it's my mom and dad.
Speaker 2:But for you know, for me I've always called him pop and I just started doing it, but he never said hey, you don't have to. You know, as usual, he just rolled, you know, he just accepted it.
Speaker 1:So you know it was a natural progression.
Speaker 2:You know, it was just in the beginning. It was hard for me to make that decision, you know. And then I think the decision kind of just happened. I don't think I actually actively said, okay, today's the day, you know, or okay, I'm going to start doing this. It just kind of happened because I think when someone puts that effort forth, you know, and does the things that they do, it's just natural right. I don't think there has to be a decision. It's kind of like when you make friends, right.
Speaker 1:There definitely doesn't have to be a decision.
Speaker 2:Right, like I said, it's kind of like when you make friends, right, you meet somebody and it's like, oh okay, whatever, and then all of a sudden you're friends. And then you know, all of a sudden you're best friends. And all of a sudden, you know it just kind of progresses in a to not be friends with this person Right. How did you tolerate me for so long? I'm kind of an asshole.
Speaker 1:Well, I've asked Kim that question many times how she's tolerated me for so long. I'm still convinced that there is somebody somewhere who is depositing money into an account that she has separate from our joint account, that she's got to be getting paid under the table because I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think you just you know you're in control of your own matrix. No one's really real around, right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely true. So you get married, you have kids. You get divorced. You have your mom and your stepdad, even though, with a divorce, you still have a pretty solid family unit.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I had some pretty tremendous support. I mean, it's. It is funny when you go through something you know and some people it's not a big deal, right, they look at each other and go, hey, this just isn't going to work and you do your thing and you split up or whatever. Mine, unfortunately, was not that way. Mine was ugly and dirty and deep. One of the judges told me one day he says you know, he says it's not a hundred percent all the time. He says but most women run on emotion where most men run on reality, which is, if I choose this path, it will cause this and this, and if I choose this path, it'll cause this and what's beneficial for everybody, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So when going through that, especially when it's ugly, there's an additional trauma to it, right? So you're losing your family, you're losing your house In my case I lost my kids for quite a while and then you also lose friends and family who choose sides or make assumptions and the most hurtful ones are the ones that you've known for the longest time and they're gone. And again they believe the stories and it's like, well, you've known me since I was 11. Have I ever done anything like that before. I mean, yes, I'm not in the right frame of mind and yes, I'm traumatized and yes, I'm hurting. I might not be making the best decisions overall, but so that going on, it paused. More of me dealing with my dad passing Right, and now I watch it and I say, well, what am I doing with my kids? Right, I can't be in this marriage anymore. It's not a happy one, it's constant fighting, it's unhealthy behavior, etc. So you don't want to stay in something like that and inflict that on your children. So you make a choice right, what's better for them? Well, this isn't better.
Speaker 2:So you split and right, then that becomes so bad that you're like trauma to the discourse and we got to a point where I didn't see my voice for almost four years, didn't exist at all, like didn't exist. It was. This isn't really the venue for it, but it was just the things that were told to them caused them to create a belief. Right, fortunately those beliefs were not true. Right, and fortunately it's. At one point they finally reached back out as they were growing and I was able to show them that really wasn't true. But I'm not mad at you. I basically I was dead to my kids for four years. There was no phone calls, there was no texting, there was no pictures, there was nothing. So, essentially, my kids had a dead dad for years, and then you have yeah, that onto the pile, right.
Speaker 1:So now, fortunately, that is something that has since reversed itself. But since we are talking about grief and we will get into everything with your dad shortly but how was that for you? How was you were essentially grieving the loss of the. Not that your kids were gone, they hadn't died, but you were. You had to grieve the loss of that relationship with both of them.
Speaker 2:It was there are joys and pains right In life, and the most joyful day I had was the day my boys were born. And the most joyful day I had was the day my boys were born. The most honestly, the most traumatic day in my life was the day I lost. Above and beyond anything that I've dealt with, that was by far the most traumatic thing. I mean so bad that you know, leonard, we were all living in Arizona and the boys went back for a visit because we had custody. And in 2009, I got custody. In 2012, we moved to Arizona and they were here with us about a year. They went home for a visit and they just never came back.
Speaker 2:So you know, but when you're young boys and you're allowed to do whatever you want, you know, what do you think? Where do you want to stay? When someone says, well, what do you want to do? You want to go back and go to school and go to rules and all that kind of stuff, or you've been running free all summer, you can stay here. So New York State did me dirty, my ex did me dirty, but it is what it was.
Speaker 2:It was the first time I actually had an adult conversation with my sons. Normally I never discussed the divorce, the adult stuff, but I had to tell them. I said you know we're going to have a talk Because I can't have you coming back to me, you know, down the road saying I need this or you have to do that or how to. You know how does this happen. And I said to them I said you know, financially, emotionally, physically, mentally, I can't do the court battles again. I can't fight again, you know, for custody. So I need you guys to understand something I'm going to, for once in my life, talk to you like an adult and just put it all out there.
Speaker 1:How old were they at this point?
Speaker 2:They were let's see, it was 2013. So 13 and 15, maybe Something right around there. And I said you know the decision you're making is the wrong one. It's the wrong one, I said it. But you know, if you want to make it, you'll have to make it. But I need you to understand that if you decide to stay, reversing it isn't going to be easy and it probably won't happen, you know. So you need to understand. If you make this bed, there's not a whole lot I can do to get you out of it if you change your mind. And of course, they said well, no, we got this big house and this, that and the other and this is all great, and blah, blah, blah. And I said okay, I said it's fine, I can't go through it again. I can't do it from Arizona to New York. I can't emotionally handle it again. You're 15 and 13 and the state says you can make that decision. So make. The state says you can make that decision. So you know, make the decision. Now, of course, I had this straight conversation and after I hung up, it was, I was a mess, but they decided to stay.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, the whole thing started all over again, from like when we first got separated. It was I'd call and get no answer. I'd call and get no response. I'd text and get no response. I would call and say, hey, I haven't heard from the boys. And I'd get well, they're busy, and I'd get you know. It was just, it was living it all over again. You know. The first because we started divorcing in 2002. I think the divorce was final in 2003, but the fighting wouldn't like the aggravation, the fighting. It all went on until 2009, until I got custody, and then started all over again in 2013.
Speaker 2:But I had to tell him, you know. And then six months later, I get a call from my oldest. He says he wants to come back home and all I can say to him is OK, well, you know, go to your mother and tell her, have the paperwork filled out, and you know that she's going to send you back to me and that's that. And I said, well, what about your brother? And he said, well, what about your brother? And he says I don't know what he wants to do.
Speaker 2:I said, okay, well, if he stays and you come, then it's, you know, 50-50 deal. So you know, we'll just wash it, I'll take care of you. She takes care of him, and that's what it is, that's what his decision, and that's what it is. And of course, you know, no, I coming home and I had to say I don't know, I haven't heard anything, I haven't seen anything. So after that, I didn't hear from either one of them for quite a while. And then I finally heard. Well, I finally heard about Anthony, because he was homeless. Yeah, I know Baffling right, so I had to chase that down.
Speaker 2:The school had called me and asked me where Andrew was my youngest one that down the school had called me and asked me where andrew was my youngest one and I said you know, it's with his mother, you know.
Speaker 2:And they said well, you know he was taken out of school last year saying they were moving to florida and but no transcripts or anything had been requested and he's not here. So I slow, I just make any sense because you know I'm supposed to be notified, you know, about moving etc. I haven't had a notification. So you know I find that odd. And then, of course, I said well, do you keep asking me about the younger one? I said where's his brother? And they said I'm sorry what I said, look, I know the file says I'm in arizona and I know the file says they're in new york. I said so, where's his brother?
Speaker 2:And that's when they hit me with it's oh, he's here, doesn't make any sense. And I said what do you? How is he there? So she reads the file and she's like I guess she was ahead of herself in the reading, because I don't think she wanted to tell me this, because if they could raise some red flags. But as she's running through the file she goes oh yeah, he's here. He's listed as a unaccompanied, homeless minor.
Speaker 2:The hell do you mean yeah, so traced it down, found out that an amazing lady you know I'm not going to say her name, it's just I don't know what she wants to be known, but just angel Right After my oldest had bounced around from couch to couch and who knows where he was living, he was afraid to call me because he was told I wasn't paying child support, I wasn't taking care of their health and those things. So I find out that this lady took him in and he was living in her house and one of the greatest things about her was unconditional. For her right, she's an old italian woman like I'm not old, she was an old.
Speaker 2:But you know that that whole proverbial stereotypical right italian lady love you, I love you, stay here, you stay here, I take care, right, and and she made him go to school and she made him get a job and she made him, you know, act like a good person. So, after reaching out, finally she convinced him to talk to me and then that established the whole. What he was told was inaccurate, right, and you know, and again, you have all the proof. But until they're 18, I don't, you don't want to do that with a child, right? You don't want to go. Well, this is your other parent, they're not great. So at this point, to do that with a child, right, you don't want to go. Well, this is your other parent and they're not great. So at this point he was a senior in high school I said, well, I want to know the truth.
Speaker 1:I said okay.
Speaker 2:So I provided him what he asked for, and then we moved forward, and then he graduated high school, went into the military and I think right around 2018, 2019, his younger brother called and asked me some questions, and you know and then we established some information and some connection and his brother had shared some stuff with him and from that point they both came back to live with me and they've been with us since. But it was four years of death.
Speaker 2:you know, initially, essentially it was like living life without you know, not knowing where they were, not knowing how they were, not knowing you know if they needed anything, it was essentially me living without them and them thinking that I didn't care, and I'm not sure if that's worse for them than it was for me with my dad, because knowing I'm alive and thinking I don't care might be more traumatic than me being dead right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how is your relationship with the boys today?
Speaker 2:It's amazing. It's amazing. I have a lot of guilt when they first came back. A lot of guilt, a lot of overdoing. What do you need? Sure, I got it. We bought them cars and stuff and helped pay for stuff and pay for their phones. Oh yeah, move in with us, right, Come back and live with us. And I was trying to make up for lost time, which I don't know that you really can make up for lost time. You can just take time that's in front of you and utilize it as best you can. But no, I think I'll never get those years back right, Watching them grow and stuff. But these years have been tremendous Watching them do things, watching them grow up to be men, watching them do their jobs and relationships and friendships, and all that stuff has been amazing. So just different because you're missing a whole block of time.
Speaker 1:Right and unfortunately it's a block of time that nothing can be done to get that back. But, as you said, the best thing that you can do is to make the best out of the time that you have now.
Speaker 2:Which, of course, I didn't die at 36. I had that option Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now that you're not dead at 36, you were still alive and well at 49. And you've clearly capitalized on that time and done what you needed to do and done what you could do to turn things around for your boys. And it was look, I wasn't part of the situation, so I'm not going to assume or pass judgment on anybody, but it was not your fault, it wasn't their fault. It was external forces that navigated their ship and, unfortunately, the simple truth of the matter is that time was lost for all three of you. And now you've got the time back and it doesn't sound like any of you are ever letting go of that anytime soon.
Speaker 2:No, it's actually funny because Anthony and Sam, they were living here and they were looking for a house here. And then, of course, with all the West Coast people moving here, the housing market went completely bananas, right. And Anthony came to me and said, dad, I know you're going to be upset. And I said, well, why, what's up? You know, I thought there was going to be some like dramatic situation, right, right. And he says, well, sam and I've been talking and the price of housing here has gone out of control and I can't see myself buying a home that's overpriced. I'll be underwater the rest of my life and I understand that.
Speaker 2:And then, unfortunately for his wife, she had a traumatic thing in her family, which they're on loan as well. But they decided that they wanted to buy a house in a place they can afford. They knew they didn't want to be back in New York. So they decided that they wanted to buy a house in a place they can afford. They knew they didn't want to be back in New York, so they moved to Pennsylvania, okay. And I said, okay, cool, right, and they're. It's funny because they're actually live about 10 or 15 minutes from my ex-sister-in-law, who we you know we get along very well, and they're very good to my kids and very good to Sam, so I'm thankful they have someone close to them, right?
Speaker 2:But I told them when they moved. I said, just so you understand. I love you both, but you will never, ever catch me in Pennsylvania in the wintertime. It's not going to happen. So you know, just understand it. I'll see you in spring and summer, beginning of fall, possibly no winter.
Speaker 1:Well, I just want to do Christmas. You're coming to Arizona pretty much.
Speaker 2:Well then they called, they texted Lynn and they said you know, sam texted Lynn and said, hey, when Eric gets home you guys can. As soon as you guys get together, can you, can you video chat, anthony? So Lynn called and texted me and says, hey, the kids want a video chat tonight. And I responded back I'm like she's pregnant. And so Lynn goes, oh, that's exactly what I'm saying, and so I guess we'll see. So we get home and we do the video chat.
Speaker 2:And of course, yeah, you know she's pregnant and it was torturous because she wasn't in through her first trimester yet. So they hit us with it and they said we can't tell anybody, we want to wait till we're after the first three months. And I'm like, how could you do that? You know what that's going to take me not to tell anyone. I'm like crazy excited. Then they hit me with the baby's due right around my birthday. So a couple of cool things and a couple of you sons of bitches, right? So cool thing my biological father passed away. He was born January 30th. I was born January 31st. Babies do.
Speaker 1:Right in that window.
Speaker 2:So you know, good possibility, right, it would be one of those days. It would be kind of cool if it was the 30th right Kind of you know whatever. But then I realized I'm sitting back and I'm talking to Linda. I'm like man, it's great to be your grandpa you know, blah, blah, blah, and she's all, what do you want to be called?
Speaker 2:I don't know yet, right. And then I stopped and I looked at her and I go, son of a bitch. And she goes, what I go? We have to go to Pennsylvania in winter, that's right. I'm like you bastards. Then I called him up and I was like you did that shit on purpose.
Speaker 1:You told him it wasn't going to happen. And that was the biggest fuck, you dude, that he goes. Well, you have no choice now. You're not going to not come for this. So yeah, you, sons of bitches, so you're going to. Pennsylvania in probably second half of January, maybe early February. Yeah, the dead of winter, the worst time to be in the Northeast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and where they are, it's snow like snow.
Speaker 1:If it snows, you're not getting out for a week and a half.
Speaker 2:So you know, yeah, and then, so you know yeah, and then of course. Then every year, you know it's christmas and birthday christmas, and like me, and like every time I think about this, me back in so kids will do that, I hear. I told him. I said you know, I said this to you and then all of a sudden you're gonna end up pregnant and you're doing the winter time.
Speaker 1:All right, that's cool, I see how it's going to be, that's right.
Speaker 2:so, but I'm excited, I completely. Jen Lynn and I are completely excited, can't come fast enough. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:If I have a second one, next time tell them to get busy in the summer and the fall so that the kid is born in the spring or the summer.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying, right.
Speaker 1:Is that really a?
Speaker 2:lot to ask. It's not really. I mean, you're young, you can do this anytime you want. So get busy in the winter so that I have a summer baby and kids see, control us, man yeah, we try to control them and they turn right back around and they find financially and emotionally control us. That's right.
Speaker 1:I need another cat and trade my kid you know we I've talked about on here many times how we tried having kids for years. It didn't happen. And I have to say at this point I I don't know if I'm ever gonna say I'm glad that I don't have kids, but just with the way that society is, yeah I'm okay it's scary having a cat?
Speaker 1:yeah, it is. I mean my brother, jack, just had him and his wife just had their second. She's two, about two months old now. Jack is 47 and he's, you know, that's after 20 years in the army, multiple injuries, multiple tours overseas, and how old is he? Sorry?
Speaker 2:how old is jack? He's 47. He's an army guy too. That's why.
Speaker 1:Jack was done with his 20 at 43, I think. So yeah, tell him if he can stick it out, do the 20.
Speaker 2:No, he got out. Oh, did he. Yeah, after his poor in Afghanistan, he was done.
Speaker 1:Yeah I can't say that I blame him there. Yeah, but tell him to have the kids young, because this way, by the time he gets to be 47, kids will be grown up and he can enjoy this one again.
Speaker 2:I'll regret. I'll still have the energy for a grandkid.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you have the energy for a new kid, but for a grandkid you'll find the energy.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I know I don't have energy for an actual kid of my own.
Speaker 1:No, that's not no, so I know that I don't either. If it ever happened, I don't know what I would do. I don't have. I don't have the energy, I'm not sure I have the patience either. I'm sure I'd find it, but put that option in front of me right now and, oh boy, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, be in your 70s brother Right, no thanks, I'm good. So you were able to fortunately reconcile, repair and really grow to levels that you probably didn't think were ever going to happen the relationships with your boys, levels that you probably didn't think were ever going to happen the relationships with your boys. Yet you are still left with grieving your dad. I know that this has impacted you. You've talked about it over the years, especially more recently. Talk to me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:You know, honestly, that's the thing about it. I don't know that I've ever done it. I don't know that I've actually. You know, I've had've had my sad days, right. I've had my melancholic like so, my dad's birthday's day before mine.
Speaker 2:So you know, lynn's been with me almost 20 years and she knows like and I don't do it on purpose, honestly, I just it just happens, and it usually takes her a little bit to realize that what the date is, because it just happens, I don't think about it, I don't look, and so, oh my god, it's my dad's birthday on friday and oh my god, I don't do any of that. It's just, I know my birthday, say, saturday, and it just automatically I just end up sitting on the couch on his birthday and I just, I'm just blah, I'm just, I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm not happy, I'm just kind of there and it bleeds into my birthday, right, and lyn, and Lynn loves to celebrate birthdays, and I just don't, I just don't celebrate them. I guess I 've never really gotten past anything, I've never dealt with anything. So I just kind of blur through those few days. If someone gets me going, I'll go do something right, but I don't just kind of sit there. I don't think I've ever actually grieved at all.
Speaker 1:When this happens, when you're just sitting there, what are some of the things that you think about with your dad that you still have not really outwardly processed?
Speaker 2:You know, I think that's part of the problem. I don't think that, I don't know that I think of anything, you know, I end up just sitting. It's almost like you're in a trance. You just no-transcript. And I think it's a real thing because even with the kids, when something normal happens in their life, you always see pictures of everybody right and they're happy smiling on wedding day and happy smiling on this day and that day. I'm a puffy-faced, red-eyed bastard over just every little thing that I get too hard of with them.
Speaker 2:When Anthony graduated boot camp basic, I got to put his infantry blue cord on. And all these other dads and parents are all like raw.
Speaker 2:Dad dads, right, right, and I'm a 250-pound walrus just sobbing in the middle of this parking lot thing with all these military guys and dads standing around. It's mostly moms crying and then me, because it's the father-son moments when Andrew came to live with me after not seeing him forever, the first seeing him, the first him in my house, the first birthday celebration after all those years, all that stuff, it's just. It hits me like a truck when Anthony got married, I'm trying to like take pictures and I'm trying to go yeah, kid, and I'm just like my wife's not even crying.
Speaker 2:I know she's emotional, so I know that the grieving process is not the same as sad days, not the same as remembering someone and being sad. Right, I don't think I've ever grieved. Quite honestly, I'm 50 and now I'm watching my son grow into a parent and a husband and I look at him and think, holy shit, what's next for him? What if I died tomorrow? What's his support system? Who's going to be there for him besides his wife? It's hard to fathom, it's really hard to comprehend and, like I said, I've never I miss my father. I love my father. I know that I'm sad that he's gone but, like I said, I don't think I've ever acknowledged any of my life for it. So it's a little weird to say that because it's been gone for 44 years, how could you not grieve after 44 years?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I guess I just didn't.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show. And now back to the show. So 40 plus years since your dad has been gone, you have been through a ton. You married, divorced, had two boys. You lost the relationship with your boys for years. You got it back and you have made the absolute most out of that. You have a great wife. You have a great life. What do you think is stopping you from grieving your dad?
Speaker 2:Honestly, up until recently, you know, like I said, as the boys got older and I start to see the life, their lives building, I think it gave me some reality, you know, because the emotions have hit me so hard lately that I think it was just a realization. I don't think I ever really thought I'd ever greet my dad, you know. I mean I've always had like this cross that I wear. It's his and the chain that was on it actually my oldest has, because before he deployed we swapped necklaces so he could take that with him, Kind of one of my weird you know little, take somebody watch over you kind of thing. But up until the boys came back in my life and up until I started to watch them build their adulthood, I don't think I realized I never grieved my father.
Speaker 1:You know. Do you think that this is not an assumption? This is a straight question. Do you have any feeling like if you try to grieve your dad's loss, if you try to process it, do you feel like then you'd be giving him up? Do you feel like you'd be losing that?
Speaker 2:You know? I don't know Because, like I said, the memories are there, right, like I have pictures on the wall, I have tattoos and jewelry and you know my boys and all that kind of stuff and all the things that you get from you know a dad having boys and having. You know children of their own, etc. Yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 2:I think I believed all these years that I grieved them. I believe I think I believed all these years that you know those days where you remembered them and you saw a picture or someone told you a story, you know, you believe that to be breathing right and getting through it and processing it and moving forward. I don't think at this point in my life, I don't think there's anything I can do that would make it where I'd feel I'd lose it. You know what I mean. I think it's there, it's always there. It's never going to go anywhere.
Speaker 2:It's so ingrained in me I think, just like I said the, and it could be because I'm getting old and maybe my you know, my bitch side is coming out. I don't know, you know. So I get emotional now, who knows?
Speaker 2:but I have noticed that in this last year or so, as the boys got older and they've started to develop their lives, I get crazy emotional. Actually, I shouldn't say that it started. It started to hit me when anthony went away to the military. Okay, my little blurbs here and there, right, and I just like when he first went in or when he went to afghanistan.
Speaker 2:No, when he first went in, because it was right after I first got in touch with him, I still hadn't seen my youngest yet. And then of course, you know you get that proud dad moment, right, like he's my son, he's infantry, or you know he's doing the being a patriot and all that kind of stuff, right, right, and you have that pride in you which I I still have for him and I always will. But then you look at, then you start to to deal with the reality of what he's. He didn't go into the air force or the navy, where it's a little more secure, not frontline line kind of stuff. Like he picked front line, he was like, oh hell, yeah, dad, peace on the front.
Speaker 2:And every time he would go training or it was emotional for me then I think, when, like he started, we're going to be deployed, dad, and every time he said it all right, son, well, if you need anything, let's know what you need, we'll get it to you. And I was all like stiff, strong dad, and then I hang up the phone. I'd lose my shit. Yeah, it was a complete mess.
Speaker 2:Then he wouldn't deploy and I'd go okay and then I'd reset, I'm like okay, we're good. And then a couple weeks later, all right, so they called us out again. We're getting ready to deploy, we're getting all our stuff together and then it was always like where are you going? We can't tell you I'll tell you, we have nothing over the phone, nothing, this, nothing, okay, fine. And then it just over and over again.
Speaker 2:And then, when he finally did deploy, it was I don't know how to quantify it right I mean some of the other dads I talked to like yeah, my son, you know, because they're over there together and me I was like, yeah, my son, and inside I'm like just a blubbering mess, right, because yeah, there's a real fear there of what can and could happen that he might not come home, right, so then he would go on these these missions and we didn't know he was on missions. Except we wouldn't hear from him for two weeks. It was like they go, like they call blackout or something or whatever they called it so for days, you're just like waiting and watching that phone.
Speaker 1:Waiting, watching, waiting and watching and then, of course, you have the funny moments where you're like you're sending him care packages because he's telling you, you know he needs this or that.
Speaker 2:And so you're packing them, all these care packages, but you don't want your kid to smoke or chew tobacco, but that's what they all do over there, you know, but they're not allowed to get it from you. So you're like hiding it in care packages, like in. You're hiding it in a pair of socks and like like some you know contraband, idiot and sending stuff over. And then all of a sudden he slips up one day and you're talking to him and lynn says to him what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm playing my switch. Lynn says how'd you get a switch? And he says, oh, amazon, I wanted to go through the phone and tear his eyeballs out. I said you get Amazon deliveries in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1:And we're sending you care packages, right.
Speaker 2:And he goes. Yeah, he goes, they come here all the time, yeah. So I'm like I'm packing boxes, we're going to Walgreens and Target and ordering off Amazon and shit, so we could get it home, repackage it and then pay to ship it and you can just get it from Amazon. I could have just placed the address through Amazon and had them ship it directly to you. Oh yeah, right.
Speaker 2:But I think all that stuff and all his growing, when, all his dumb and all his smart and all his everything in between, I think it kind of brought up a lot of unresolved things. Just how I never dealt with it. What I missed as a kid, what I missed with my dad and I mean, don't get me wrong I said my dad now my stepdad is tremendous filled a lot of holes for me, like amazing and my mom being who she was. I never, like I said I never wanted for anything. I had plenty of love, I had plenty of support, I had plenty of everything I needed. There's just, there's no doubt. But there was always that missing piece and I think I just started to spackle over it oh, the hole in the wall's fixed. Okay, cool. But after getting to this age and seeing my boys grow and looking back at the wall in the hallway and you go oh I didn't really fix that, I didn't really paint that properly and I didn't really sand it.
Speaker 2:I really didn't. So I think he just kind of threw something over it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just put a bandaid on the problem.
Speaker 2:Cause.
Speaker 1:I didn't.
Speaker 2:I don't think that I knew it was a problem. I was. I wasn't unfulfilled in my life. I had a good support system, I had good parents, I had things I needed. So I don't know that I quantified as grief as much as I did loss right, like I missed my dad. I wished he would be here. And the stories oh, your dad would have been so proud of you and your dad would be so proud of you. Dad, you're just like your father. You're just like this. I think those are the things you look back and go yeah, I wish I knew that, right. I wish I that was my memory. I wish that was my thought process, right. So I think when you look back at it, you realize that road is really long now. It's got a lot of potholes on it that you ignored, you know, and I feel that way because of the amount of emotion that comes out of me now watching the boys. It's just, it gets out of control, it gets overwhelmed, gets overwhelmed well, you keep going back to that hole in the wall.
Speaker 1:You keep seeing how you didn't cover it up the right way. You can see where certain spots weren't sanded right. Let's just rip the fucking spackle right off the wall. What are some of the biggest triggers for you when it comes to your dad?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I mean like I said, I think it's it's hard to really establish the triggers because the things I think they would have been were graduating high school, right Big thing. My stepdad was there, so I didn't have that missing hole Like I missed my dad, right, I mean I did, but I didn't have the oh, I can't believe everyone's here with their parents and my dad's not here. When I got married the first time and the second time, I didn't have the oh, I can't believe, you know everyone's here with their parents and my dad's not here. You know, when I got married the first time and the second time, I didn't have the missing hole when those typically would be the triggers. They weren't triggers. Then, if that makes sense, if Tom hadn't been there, those would have been. That's my trigger, bro, that was it. That was the not having. You know the Boy Scout stuff. When you know, when mom was there, my friends' dads would fill in. You know, high school graduation, college graduation, children being born, getting married, you know all those things. I had a very solid parental unit, right, I had my mom who was always there, always supportive, and then I had my stepdad who was the same.
Speaker 2:So, but now that I'm watching my sons grow. I think that's bringing those to fruition as a trigger. But now we're talking. These are triggers that I never really acknowledged and they're 20 plus years old. I think that's the problem is. I think I fought it for a while too as to going back. Why go back 20 years? Why go back 25 years? Why? Rel think that's the problem is I think I fought it for a while too as to going back. Why go back 20 years? Why go back 25 years? Why relive that pain? Why make it pain?
Speaker 1:It wasn't pain and now it is. Yeah, and the reason why I'm asking these questions is I'm not trying to get you to relive the pain. I'm asking you because you're not reliving it. It's not like you abandoned it for a long time and it wasn't there and all of a sudden it came back. It never stopped. That's the difference. It's not that something happened a long time ago and it wasn't that big of a deal then, and all of a sudden, now, after so many years, it's hitting you hard. That's not the case. It happened literally a lifetime ago, but this is something that has been ongoing for you forever. This isn't something that just like it was a little, you sidestepped it and then you know it was no big deal. But now this has been. This has been growing. This has been growing.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I think I'm acknowledging now, at this age, you know, and that's one of the what's what I think I'm acknowledging now, at this age, you know, and that's one of the that's one of the things that's so scary is, I know what's always been there, right to a certain extent. But when you get to this point now and you look back on it and it's like now you're looking down this hallway and you're like I don't want to go back down the hallway, I just want to. You know what. I just want to press forward, I just want to deal with today but it hasn't worked out for you so far. It's not, and that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like we talked the other day. I said now I'm at this age where it's not going away. Right now. The realizations are there. The realities are there. The this is not a sock you can just put away in the drawer. This, this is something that keeps coming out and poking me in the eye. I can't watch TV without getting emotional. I can't talk to my wife without getting emotional. The what it's taking me during this, with you not getting completely emotional, like it's a real struggle right now, like I can tell everybody else who's listening to this is going to hear this on just a regular podcast, on an audio version.
Speaker 1:You and I are on a zoom call, I can see it just a regular podcast on an audio version.
Speaker 2:You and I are on a Zoom call. I can see it. My gut hurts, right. I can feel the tension, trying to keep myself from losing my shit, because I know once I do, it's very difficult to come back from it. And over this last year it gets worse and worse. Right the first time it's a little sniffle, right the next time it's a sniffle and a cry. The next time it's a full-on headache, because you're trying to control it and it's just progressing, which is, like I said, like when you and I spoke the last time.
Speaker 2:It's getting to a point now where there is no ignoring it. There is no suck it up, there is no. It is what it is. It's something that I have to acknowledge and deal with now because I didn't deal with it before. And the hard part is I didn't intentionally not deal with it. It's not one of those things where you say, well, it's my fault. I knew I should have dealt with it 10 years ago and I knew I should have done this and I knew I should. I just didn't do it. I didn't know.
Speaker 1:This isn't an issue of fault. This isn't an issue of anything. This is you've been trying to put it off, either because you didn't want to deal with it, you didn't think you could deal with it and, as you've said, it's you're realizing that it's hitting you harder. The more that you think about it, the longer it is that you realize that you've been dealing with this, the harder it's getting to deal with it. So, at the risk of making you a blubbering idiot, as you said, why don't we just deal with it? Why don't we at least to begin Because? Okay. So I'm going to throw this out there, something that I have learned in this journey of podcasting and I think you're somewhere around the 25th-ish interview that I've done and I've had a lot of other initial conversations that the common factor, a lot of other initial conversations the common factor with everybody dealing with their grief, especially with people who try to, whether ignore it or fight it, run away from it, just not deal with it head on, at least initially is the worst time, was the initial time of facing it, and then after that, it got better, slowly.
Speaker 1:I interviewed a lady recently who she's older, she's semi-retired, she's got a few books out and she's done some speaking engagements with large groups and she told me one particular about a class that she's I think it was a sixth or seventh grade class she had. One of the kids had asked her if therapy is supposed to be good, then why does it hurt so much? And she and I loved this answer. She said that you should think about when you don't feel good, when you feel like you're going to be sick, when you feel like you're going to throw up. What do you do? You try to do everything you can to avoid it. Sometimes you're successful, sometimes you're not. You either try to think about something else. You sit down and you relax, you try to focus on something, you take deep breaths, you do whatever you can and hope that the feeling is going to go away. Sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't and you do, end up being sick and you throw up.
Speaker 1:Now we've all thrown up, we've all gotten sick, and I'm not sure if there's anything in this world that I enjoy less than vomit, Fucking sucks. And she said that when you do throw up, it feels horrible, it tastes disgusting. Overall it's one of the worst feelings. And then what is the first feeling that you have a few minutes after you throw up? You feel better.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll throw this out there.
Speaker 1:You got the worst part of it past you, and then you start to feel better.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll throw this out there. And this is kind of funny because I think it relates to it, cause I finally got to a point where I realized that I haven't dealt with all this stuff and I need to. And it's funny because I give my kids advice all the time, right, and it's good advice that I don't take myself, and when it comes to like throwing up, to feel better, one thing that's funny about me is I prefer to just throw up and get it over with. The problem I have is I am a violent puker. Like it's violent, like shit comes out my eyes, violent, like you know, all that stuff's connected. Well, yeah, when I do it, it finds a way out of all those places. Yeah, but you know, like I said, I think I'm at the point where it's where I know I got to deal with.
Speaker 2:I'm at the point where I know that this is a bigger issue than I ever thought it was. It's affecting my daily life, it's affecting how I deal with my wife, my kids, etc. And one of the things I told my and I said it recently to them within the last year, with all the things that went on with their bio mom, they decided that they were done with that situation and I said to them I said that's fine if you're done and it's fine if you're not, but what I'll tell you is you still have to process it. You want to be done, you want to not be done. But don't be done, but process it, because it was trauma, it was mental, it was physical, it was emotional. I'm like deal with it, because if you don't, it's going to come up later. I think that also led me to where I am, where it's like you just told the kids exactly that you dipshit, you're playing.
Speaker 1:Do as I say, not as I do.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's like you're sitting here on the couch, you know, trying to pretend to your wife that your your sunscreen dripped in your eye right and that you're not emotional over some walmart commercial or some other nonsensical thing that really, on a any given day was. It's just a movie, it's just a commercial, it's just a statement. It's just a saying a picture whatever. And a commercial. It's just a statement, it's just a saying, a picture whatever. And you can't hold it together. You're beyond pushing it down.
Speaker 1:Do you have a feeling like you are obligated to hold it together?
Speaker 2:I think as men I think we all do to a certain extent Sure, and I think that it's again another thing. I told the boys back in the day we didn't know what shutting down meant, we didn't know what decompressing meant, right, but we did it. We didn't realize, we did it, but we did it. Your house. When mom said that's it, no friends, today she closed the wood door. Right, nobody knocked because they knew if the inside door was closed. This house is done today. Right, that's right. If they didn't want phone calls, they took it off the hook, put on the counter. So we didn't have phones that had social media and instant access and gaming with people on it. You got grounded there was nothing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was as much as no one liked being grounded. It was a decompression time. It was time to reflect on the shit that went on during the day or at school, or but the fight you had with your buddy and you were able to go out afterwards and go what's up dick. And you go, what's up dick. Good, you were good, right, because you had the decompression time. So it didn't. It wasn't like you and I get an argument and it doesn't stop, right, because we can keep escalating it with text or phone calls or social media. So we don't do that, we don't have decompression time. And that's one of the things I told the boys. I was like you got to relax, you got to shut it down, you got to put your phone away, you got to do this and we don't do that. We're included in that and it's so. There's no more of that.
Speaker 1:Be a man, suck it up, handle it, because back then it was a bad decision to suck it up and rub dirt on it and we didn't realize we were getting bad advice at the time when we were getting this advice 30, 40 years ago, we had no way of knowing it was the wrong advice right and the thing is because the people that were giving us that advice, believed that they were doing the best they could with the tools that they had and what they were given as kids and adults.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think the only thing that saved us was because we didn't have constant access to things, right, so that decompression time saved us from losing our shit and that's what. And now we don't have that. So now, as a man, yeah, I grew up with your responsibility to take care of this. It's your responsibility to make sure she's taken care of it. Your responsibility to make sure those kids take care of it. Your responsibility to take care of this. It's your responsibility to make sure she's taken care of it. It's your responsibility to make sure those kids take care of it. It's your responsibility to make sure the food's in the house.
Speaker 2:But you're doing all of that while, also, we work 24 hours a day. Now, we are socializing 24 hours a day. Now, we are interacting 24 hours a day. Now, there is no shut off. And I think they've got to a point now where I'm getting to the realization that it's impossible to do it by myself, it's impossible to be the keeper of everything and the savior of everything. And it's funny because, if you look back, when I met Lynn, one of the first things I said was our first date, literally our first date. We went to the Oyster Bay Festival. Right, it was my first date with her and it went really well. It went all day into the night, into the next day, and we could see it was going somewhere. And I literally said to her on our quasi second date, which was really an extension of our first date, I sat down Because it was a three-day long party, it kind of
Speaker 2:was A lot of talking, a lot of walking, et cetera, and I kind of said to her I said look, I'm going to say something to you because it feels to me like this is going to go somewhere and I need you to understand that I don't have the luxury of time wasting. You know cause again irrational. But I was still around that 30 year old range, I think I had much time left. So I said look, I said if you're interested in doing this, I said there's things you need to know about me.
Speaker 1:One.
Speaker 2:I don't want a dependent, I want a partner. You know, and she knew what I did for a living back then. I made good money and you know I knew what she did for a living and where it was Admiral. She didn't make a lot and she said, well, I don't make what you make. And I said, well, that's not the point. I want a partner. So I want you to give everything you can to this relationship, whether financial, emotionally, whatever. And I'm going to do the same. It has to be a partnership. I'm not I can't do another dependent. I can't have someone who just takes and takes and doesn't give Right. And she said I'm with that. And then I said the other thing.
Speaker 2:That's going to sound irrational to you, possibly, but there's things you need to know in my life. There are things and they come in an order. You know it's going to sound silly, but my job is number one. It is always number one. It will always be number one, whether it's this job or another job. It is number one in my life. And I said I know it sounds silly I said, but number two is my children.
Speaker 2:My boys are number two. You and I are number three. This is the way it is, and I said just so you understand. The reason the job is number one is because I can't have number two and number three without it. So it's not that I I love my job more than my kids or you, it's not that I want to be at my job more than with you or the kids, but without it I can't take care of the things that we need to take care of. So it always has to be number one. I will not call out sick. I will not skip work to go to the park. I won't want to do any of those things. And when her and I had the conversation, we realized we were on the same page. But the realization of saying that was I want to partner this time. I don't want to be the guy, but then inevitably what'd you do right? Became the guy.
Speaker 1:I got that. I'll take care of that.
Speaker 2:Yep, I'll do that. I'll do that and over the years thankfully Lynn is a legit partner and she takes on a lot of things she said I'll come home and I'll be like, oh, I got it. She's like I did it already and I'm like what do?
Speaker 1:you mean, you did it?
Speaker 2:already I was going to do it. Well, I knew you had a long day today, so I was home ready. I did it, paying the bills or calling a doctor or whatever. She does all those things and it's nice to have a partner. And now, like I said, now that I'm getting to these realizations in this last year, I think with her help on doing all those other things, I guess I should say damn it for doing all those things. So that gave me the opportunity to open my mind and go. All those things I haven't dealt with all those years are right here right now, and they're all waiting to be dealt with.
Speaker 1:You've always wanted to be the strong guy. You've wanted to be the provider. You've wanted to take care of your family, your wife, your kids, make sure that everything and everyone was taken care of. You have that. You have a great life. You've got a great marriage. Your boys are doing wonderful. You've got a grandchild on the way. You're doing very well. What is holding you back from taking care of you?
Speaker 2:It seems like you can't give yourself permission to take care of you, quite honestly, not to make your head any bigger than it already is. Literally and figuratively, you always had a big noggin.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for reminding me of that, as anybody who's listened to episode two knows, I did take that.
Speaker 2:I knew you would, but I did take it from your Goodfellas there podcast where everyone was talking about your noggin, so I figured I'd throw that back in there for you. Much appreciated, I love it too, yeah, but honestly, I think I had all the emotions coming. I had all the this is going to be bad, this is going to explode, this is going to get out of control. I had all that leading up to and the fruition of your podcast, I think, gave me the ability and the I don't want to say permission, but just the acknowledgement of holy shit, that's right. I have so many buddies and friends that are, that have lived this and are living this and it's time to start acknowledging you know. It's time to start saying yeah, you know, let's start digging into this. I start looking at it and again, don't get me wrong, I don't think that I have years of repressed emotion and anger, things like that. I don't.
Speaker 1:I had a good life.
Speaker 2:My mom and my stepdad did very well for us, took very good care of us, etc. So I don't think that I'm in a position of some where the father passed when they were very young. All they had was their mom. No significant male figure ever came into fruition for them. Everyone's got a different right, a different track they're on, even though it may seem similar from a distance right, not having that father figure, I think would have changed my trajectory dramatically. Or if my mom had potentially gotten with a not so great guy right, someone who was just like hey, listen, you guys are growing up.
Speaker 2:I don't give a shit about what you're doing. I think that would have changed my life dramatically. Of course, decisions I would make, things I would look at whatever.
Speaker 2:So I'm thankful for it and I think that's. I think this is really just getting the mental fortitude right To punch through, cause I know it's going to be a lot of emotion, it's going to be messy. Yeah, I don't think it'll necessarily be bad. I don't think it'll be angry. I know some people have a lot of anger. Right, I'm awesome, because I was mad at God for a long time as a kid. Right, how dare you?
Speaker 2:You know, like I used to, I could never listen to Billy Joel with his you know the Good Die Young. Yep, because it was like that's what everyone said to me. That was so young, I was so good, he died so young. I couldn't listen to that song for the longest time. There's a I don't know if you ever saw there's a movie jack frost with michael keaton. Sure I made it about 22 minutes into that movie. I was done. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, things like that were triggers for me going through my adulthood and but it was once in a while. Right now it's daily, a weekly thing, because it's like I, my triggers now are seeing my kids grow, seeing my kids become adults. Those are the things that get me realizing that. Step it up, dude, you got to start looking at what happened, you got to start processing it so that you can be a better father to them and a better husband and all those things. I don't want these things to drag me down. I don't want them to absorb my mental capacity, because that's what happens. You know. You sit on the couch, you stop crying and half the day is gone.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you something that you just said. You said that you need to step up your game. You need to be a big, a better father and a better husband. Do you really believe that you need to be a better husband, that you need to be a better father? Cause you see, well, it's pretty fucking amazing.
Speaker 2:It's not see, it's just. That's the thing it's like. It's not that I think, not that I think I'm a bad husband or a bad father. You know, my, they're my world, Right, yeah. But I think it's because I'm allowing this to absorb a lot of my mental time where it shouldn't, right. I obviously haven't processed a lot of it, so I'm not acknowledging things like well, you know, it's like instead of sitting on the couch with dad, or if I'm having some kind of emotional breakdown, I could be on the phone with my kid, could be taking a walk with my wife, I could be enjoying some other part of my active, alive life, right? So it's not that I think I'm a bad father or husband. I just think I could be better by not allowing those emotions to take so much time at it. And I think if I process them and I start to process the grief and the loss and all that stuff like I should have, it'll open up a lot of my emotional time get rid of some baggage.
Speaker 1:Sure, what do you think it would take to really truly begin processing this?
Speaker 2:Honestly, this was a good start for me. So I do appreciate you as a friend and I do appreciate you on this aspect of it. But honestly, like I told him, I think I got to start seeing somebody because I don't know what it is Right and, for all I know, couldn't. It might not be trauma from my dad, it could be divorce trauma, it could be child custody trauma, it could be a million other things that I'm linking to my dad.
Speaker 1:I think there definitely is some stuff with your dad, because when your mom found you passed out in the backyard in fifth grade, you hadn't met your first wife. At that point you didn't have kids, you weren't even an adult. So there's definitely something there with, maybe with again, I'm not a therapist, so I'm not going to say for sure, but whether it's how you handle stress, what you process, what you don't process, there is definitely something there. And whether it's because of losing your dad or whether there was something else in your childhood that either we haven't discussed or maybe that you're just not thinking of at the moment, I definitely think that you can absolutely benefit from talking to somebody. I knew we weren't going to solve the world's problems in a couple of hours.
Speaker 2:Well, damn it, dude. You gave me the impression we would.
Speaker 1:Well, look, I was hopeful, but I also was pretty certain that there was going to be a lot more. I figured this was either going to be a three-day conversation or a multi-part conversation and, honestly, that's something that I thought about initially before we even started, and I've also been thinking about while we've been talking that maybe this is at least a two-part interview, that we've had this conversation, we've uncovered a lot and that there's a lot of work that you need to do and, as far as you recognize that you want to improve things, you want to be more present for Lynn, for the boys, not that you're not now, but instead of, as you put it, not that you're not now, but instead of, as you put it, spending so much time either thinking about your dad or not thinking about him, just being sad and not really being able to take it a step beyond that. So, yes, I definitely think that is something that you do. I don't want to say need, because I don't want to say what he needs, but I think it's a good recommendation that you do and I think you could agree with that. You've said it yourself that you need to talk to somebody and I think that's a conversation that, unfortunately, to limit my professional if you want to call it abilities probably goes well beyond this podcast.
Speaker 1:However, I think that this was a huge start and I think that there is a much deeper conversation that we can have that you and I can have, and I think, before we continue, that I think that there also needs to be a conversation with somebody who is much better equipped than you and I to really get to the root of what is going on, because once you find the root cause if there is just one, there might be multiple, but once you can uncover of all the holes on the wall and all the spackle that's been put over, one of those holes has something behind it that is going to be the big shining beacon and say okay, now, here we are, now, there's no turning back. We haven't gotten to that point yet and, again, that's something that I think can be uncovered with a conversation with an actual professional, because the only thing I'm professional at is taking care of Maxie, maybe being halfway decent for Kim.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it was a very big canvas right?
Speaker 1:Yes, it is. It's a very big canvas. Totally understand that. I definitely would love to continue this conversation at some point, at whatever point that you are ready. I think that this was a really good start. I could definitely. I could see the emotion on your face. I could hear the emotion in your voice. I know it's there. I know it's like it's not even knocking. It is banging on the inside of your skull to come out. I know it is. I know that when it does start, it's going to be very messy for you.
Speaker 2:I've noticed it. That's why I said this this last year has been a buildup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know that it's going to be messy for you. I also know that you will get through it. I know that Lynn is going to be there and she's going to have you back through everything. I know that you guys are you're not just married, you are partners. You are both there for everything that you guys have been through recently Health-wise. You've always been there for each other and you always will be.
Speaker 1:With something like this, mental health is just as important as physical health and you have both been addressing your physical health and you're great there. At this point, your mental health is. It definitely is. It's screaming for for you, and I think that if there is any advice that I could give, just based on all of the conversations I have had with others, with the conversations that you and I have already had, because we obviously talked about this plenty of times previously it is definitely a recommendation that you take the next step and find somebody that you're comfortable talking with. Hopefully you'll find that you take the next step and find somebody that you're comfortable talking with. Hopefully you'll find that person on the first shot Something that I can recommend with having gone through my own therapy process after my dad died. Now our processes will be very different.
Speaker 1:I had my dad for 45 years. I had crazy complicated relationship with my dad. When he died it was a lot of anger that I was processing, or rather not processing, that I didn't know how to process, and that's a lot of what I had a conversation with and we dug into it. We got to the root of it and, fortunately for me, I got to a point after the six months where I, as I've said before, I wasn't cured but I had processed it. I knew that everything that I was feeling was valid and it had a place and I was able to get past the anger that I had toward him. I was at a point before that I didn't want to think about him. I was done. I'm never going to say I was glad he was gone, because I wasn't necessarily, but I wanted to just not think about him anymore and I realized that wasn't healthy either and I did process it and came out hopefully a little bit better on the other end, because now I'm doing a podcast that has Right. It's a thing.
Speaker 2:I've done therapies before. Right, I had the kids go into therapies during our divorce and stuff like that. So I know the value of it, which, again, is one of those things Okay, kids, come on, we got to go, we got to do this, I don't want to do it. Well, it's valuable, you need to do it, it's going to help you, you know. And then hey, hi, yeah, I'm really values there. I've been through therapies and I was part of their therapies, but I think, as a man, it's the worry is always OK, my kids need this, my wife needs this, my, my job needs this, my parents need this, but there's no ignoring it at this point because I can't control it anymore.
Speaker 1:There is nothing that your children or your wife or your mom or your stepdad or your job needs that you will not be able to give them. But I think you'll be able to give it to everybody a lot better if you can find a way to help yourself, because the one thing that you won't be able to do is give them anything or everything that they need if you don't have the emotional capacity to do it. If you get to the point where you are not capable of just daily function because you are so buried in your grief, if you're so upset you can't work. You're so upset you can't go out on a date with Lynn or you can't go to visit your grandchild because you're worried about how emotional it's going to be. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but I'm saying if it does, if it gets to that point, that's going to affect you way more than it's affecting you right now.
Speaker 2:I think about it every time I go, every time we go, like we went to the wedding. We were driving to Pennsylvania. Yeah, I was anticipating my break. We found out about the grandkid coming. I was breaking down. When we think about the grandbaby getting here, breaking down, let's think about seeing my youngest, not seen him for a while. I acknowledge it's there where, prior to these last, this last year or so I was able to just my thing. I'm on my way and if I had an emotional thing, it was maybe right, but not always. Now. It's always this last year.
Speaker 1:Well, because now it's not. If it's going to happen, right, it's a matter of when. It's a matter of what's going to trigger, what's going to bring it on and how blubbering of a mess it's going to be it's not a, it's a certain large man blubbering is going to be a mess. I can relate. It's a certainty, and the only thing left to do is start the process.
Speaker 2:Yep, I started it today, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm glad that I could be a part of it, and I'm truly thankful that. I know you do and I appreciate you. I am seriously thankful for allowing me to be the first step of this.
Speaker 2:I'll be honest, dude. My initial thing was yeah, my dad died. I want to help Nick, I want. I want to help his podcast. I'm in. And then, after we talked the first time, I went oh shit exactly, he's not gonna let me off easy. It's when I. It's what gave me more realization that yeah, another thing where I'm going another thing.
Speaker 2:Where I'm standing, I'm going yeah, of course I'm gonna help my buddy. Of course I want his thing to be successful. Of course I'll be part of it. My dad's, of course I'll be part of it.
Speaker 1:My dad said, of course I'll be part of it, you know, and then you go through and you're like son of a bitch Right.
Speaker 2:It's another realization for me that it's not just to help my friend out, because obviously I'm at a point where I'm willing to discuss it in front of thousands of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Look.
Speaker 1:I love that you were willing to talk to me about this. I love that we have a lot of people in common and when this episode does drop, hopefully a bunch of them will hear it, Not for any bad reason not to like put you on the spot or anything but because hopefully it will help somebody else. The only reason that I've done this podcast is because I want to help other people. I've made that very clear from the beginning and I know that there are many ways that people can help others. For me, it has been doing this podcast because I recognized how tough my journey was and I didn't even have the best relationship with my dad.
Speaker 1:Some people that I've spoken with have had much worse. Some people have had amazing relationships. But there is always a place for grief and it always needs to be processed. It is always a place for grief and it always needs to be processed. It is always valid and it's always necessary to grieve. It does have to be grieved on your schedule and your timeline and when you're ready, but I think something that we can both agree on is it is way overdue.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you know, maybe you can tell me if you did this, because I did it and as I get older I realized that these people were tremendous in my life, tremendous value love in my life. But as I'm getting older, I think I realized that it was more of a coping mechanism for me. I called, like my one of my very close friends, jason. I called his parents, mom and dad when I went over there. I was hey pop. I gave him, you know, hey mom. You know, when I was moved to Georgia, I was 21, didn't even have Anthony yet, and there was an older guy who worked with Al. He passed away, unfortunately, but tremendous man in my life.
Speaker 2:And again, I would call him pops. You know, hey pops, hey kid. I think I that's a coping method mechanism. I think I built multiple parents in my life.
Speaker 1:I did that too, and I had lots of friends who their parents were like second parents to me moms and dads. I had a lot of friends growing up whose parents were still married. Sometimes I had friends who only had a single parent, whether they were divorced or whatever the case was, and whether it be like that, their mom was like a mom to me. Their dad was like a dad to me. I absolutely had it and I love that I did because, unfortunately, through my dad's choice, not mine, there were a lot of things growing up that my dad just was not a part of. You know, when I was in Boy Scouts, the whole you heard it in the intro episode all the way to the Eagle Scout ceremony.
Speaker 1:He wasn't involved in any of it. Because the reason he wasn't involved is because he felt like when we went camping on the scout camping trips, if it affected his weekend, then he got bent out of shape, even though my mom was going above and beyond. She said, you know, they can cause we alternated weekends. My mom always said they can go over the weekend before, they can go over the weekend after, like, get, get extra time, no big deal. My mother was always happy to do that, but it wasn't good enough for him because in my dad's narcissistic mind everything revolved around him and so I didn't.
Speaker 1:You know, yes, I had a father growing up, but we've all heard the expression anybody can be a father, but it really takes somebody special to be a dad. Right, and yeah, I called him dad. I didn't call him father, but I mean like, was he like truly a dad in the sense of like the dad that we really want? Largely no, and I never tried to replace him with any of the dads that you know my friends had or any you know exes that I had, you know had that I was dating at the time, or whatever. I never tried to, I never wanted to replace him. I always wanted my dad to be just better at what he could have been. It was great to have additional father figures in my life because, as a young kid, as a teenager in 20s, I mean it just I never really had it from my dad. So, yeah, I did get it from different sources and I loved it. I'm so grateful for it because that, like so many other things, helped shape me into a nightmare situation that I am today.
Speaker 2:Right, well it was. I always thought it was a New York thing, right. And then I, and then, as I was getting older.
Speaker 2:I realized it was a choice thing. Right, cause they didn't call. I didn't call all my friends, parents, mom and dad, but there were special ones that I did, you know, and you know there was a handful of them. But as I'm getting older and there's all this stuff's coming to the surface, you know I look back and I go well, I chose that for a reason. Right, they were special to me and I the title was more important to me than it might have been to them. Right, because I think it was trying to help myself and I think I also kept me from grieving, kept me from dealing with you know, I used to run away.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know you remember Jay Riley, oh sure. So I used to run away to Jason's house and he used to run away to my house and what we didn't know was our parents would call each other, my mom and his mom, yeah, stupid's here, he's safe. You know. We were all like that's right, she doesn't know where I am right. Yeah, show her for yelling at me little, did you know? No, I know myro was calling going dipshits here, you know. And my mother's calling jason's here, he's safe, you know.
Speaker 2:And then we found out about the network of moms in the neighborhood. You know, as you come home and it was like so how was your day? It was good, you didn't leave the block, did you? No, oh, so that wasn't you on janetta, what? And you weren't running around on eleanor and edgewater and you weren't down by the riviera, that wasn't you, oh yeah. And when you get to be older, you realize that the patelli's moms were telling on you and, and you know, christine's mom was telling and Ben's mom was telling and this mom was telling they were all. It was a network.
Speaker 1:But nobody was giving any of us a hard time, because they always knew we were safe Well, and we also respected all of them, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, well, there's that too. And then one of the parents came out and goes dude Nick.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, right, yeah, so look, but yeah, I find it funny. All, yeah, I think it's really funny. All the parents were co-parenting, all of us. You know, that's something that we definitely recognized when we were living in texas. We had so many wonderful friends in texas and almost all of them had kids and our friends, sean and abby, the first ones that we really became super close with.
Speaker 1:They have three girls that when we got there, they were, I think they were 13, 10, and 7. And pretty much as soon as the four of us me and Kim and Sean and Abby knew that we were all going to be really tight, they told the girls right away, I think probably the first time that they had came over to the house. That's because we bought the house five minutes after we got to Bastrop. But as we all started spending a lot of time together, they both of them told the girls you will treat everybody I'm sure they probably said this to other friends too but you will treat Nick and Kim the same way that you will treat us If they say something. That's the way it is. You respect them, abide by their rules and look, it's not like we were ever harsh at all.
Speaker 2:No, but there was a value there.
Speaker 1:There was and we were always like second parents to those girls, and we had that example with many of our friends. But I'd love that we were second parents to them and they were like kids to us.
Speaker 2:Feels good right.
Speaker 1:Having kids, but you know, at the same time they always went home.
Speaker 2:Dude, it feels good. I was once here that did that when their daughter had her baby and she was thinking about godparents and stuff. And she's talking to her parents and she said I was thinking about you know, eric and Linda, but I don't know if I should do this or that. And her parents said to her let me ask you something, eric and Linda, are they here every day? Well, no, but if you called them at two o'clock in the morning, would they drive here?
Speaker 2:And she was well yeah absolutely Well, I think you made your decision, it's absolutely. Yeah, so this has been fun. Bastard Almost got A couple of times yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I was curious if it was going to happen. It almost did. I held it together pretty good. That's the difference between being on a phone call and being on a Zoom call is I could see it. I wasn't sure if it was going to come out there were a couple of times I really thought it was there.
Speaker 2:It was there. It took a second.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it took a second and that's about. And I also think that it will be better served for both of us to table this for a little bit. Table our conversation, not for you to table your conversation. You don't need to be tabling your conversation for much longer. I'm going to go back to my dark humor for a few days. You can go back to dark humor for a few days and then after that, I think it's time that you start figuring out what you need to do.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to say this and I will publish this part whether you know somebody who's there, or an office, a group or whatever, or if you need to find somebody online, when I found my therapist, I found her through I think it was Sondermind went online, filled out some questions and they basically line you with a whole bunch of therapists and I mean, like we did it virtually. We were just outside of Austin, she was in San Antonio, so I never met her in person, but every week we had a zoom call and I could see her, she could see me, and that was the way we did it. I was totally fine with it. It was I wasn't going to do like just a phone call. I needed to if we could.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't do a phone call. I got to you, got to see you, got to make sure you mesh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to make sure you're going to mesh and I have to be honest with you anybody who's going to try to help you. They need to be able to see body language. I'm not associated with Sondermine, I'm not sponsored or anything like that, but I can, truly, for anybody who's hearing this, I can recommend if you need to work with somebody. Sondermine is a great resource. Yes, there are plenty of others out there. I can recommend them because it worked for me. I'm not saying you should or should not, or have to or don't have to, or whatever, but all I can recommend is you find somebody, and you find somebody soon, because there is so much. That is like I said, it is banging on those doors. There there is someone with a little hammer on the inside of your eyeballs. That is just like trying to crack something open and get out based on what you've got coming up soon. You've got a grandchild that's going to be born in about five months, and I know that it's a sort of countdown big head, that's right.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's just a little bit more so I can be your emotional support animal for you.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't have to. There's nothing that I can tell you that you don't already know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, like I said this last, you know, this last six months to a year has really been the catalyst for me. It's really everything's coming up to the top, everything's there, and I think it's because, like I said, watching my kids grow, watching them become adults, is giving me the realization of things that need to be dealt with.
Speaker 1:And I think the last thing that I would ask you, at least on part one of this interview because I think, hopefully, safely, we can call this part one and at some point down the line we will do part two is wouldn't it be I don't know if easier is the right word, but perhaps more beneficial for you and possibly for everyone else, if you were in a place mentally where you were able to enjoy everything for what it is, rather than be upset over thinking about your dad or thinking about anything else, basically being in a position where you have begun to process things and that everything does have a place and you're able to start to put those things in a place and be able to enjoy your grandchild time with your children.
Speaker 2:A movie whatever it may be, and that's exactly what I'm trying to get to, because don't get me wrong Whatever it may be, and that's exactly what I'm trying to get to, because don't get me wrong the when I lose my shit at the wedding, right it wasn't a bad thing.
Speaker 1:It wasn't sad.
Speaker 2:I was extremely happy and extremely excited, but it was the emotional part of I didn't think I was going to get to be part of this, which I think ties to the my dad passing. I didn't think I was going to get to be part of this, my dad was never part of this, and so I think it's all tied together.
Speaker 1:Sure, I totally understand that, but could there be a way? Could you find a way? Instead of thinking I never thought I was going to be part of this, instead thinking God damn. I am so grateful that.
Speaker 2:I am a part of this and that's what I want. I'm thankful, but I want to lose the. I can't believe I'm part of this. I didn't think I would be and I'd like it to be replaced with I'm so happy that I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is incredible. It can be done. It definitely can. Again thank you for being willing. I know this was not an easy conversation for you.
Speaker 2:It wasn't, but I appreciate you making it doable.
Speaker 1:It's my pleasure and I couldn't have done it without you. You did the hard part. I just asked some crazy questions and you we had a little bit of fun. We threw in some humor and at the same time you are the one who had to go to that place and you did, and I'm so thankful that you did.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry that it actually I'm not really sorry. No, I know.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that it actually I'm not really sorry. No, I know I'm not sorry. Yeah, I wasn't trying to obviously get you to an upset place. I was trying to get you to recognize what and I'm sure that you already do recognize, without me having to do it for you or without me having to put that in front of you. But I am glad that you were able to recognize that there is a lot more work to be done. I do hope that you're able to find that place where you can start that initially, and whether you do it on your own, and whether it's with conversations with Lynn, whether it's conversations with me, whether it's conversations with anybody, look, just because we're having this conversation now and I know that we will have another on the record conversation down the road, doesn't mean we can't have off the record conversations. I'm always a resource, I'm always willing to talk, talk and text plenty, and you know, I hope you know that. I'm sure I don't have to say it you don't.
Speaker 2:This has been a good thing, dude. These conversations that I've had in the past of this stuff has always been limited to a handful of people, so getting it out is the next step.
Speaker 1:And I think once this part, because, let's face it, unfortunately the episode is going to be released and people are going to hear it, and that's okay. I think that'll maybe benefit you more than you even are aware of right now. We do have a ton of mutual friends and mutual acquaintances that we've all known since high school. Our Facebook probably has like 30,000 mutual people or some stupid number, and that's okay. Honestly, I want people to hear this, not in a way to exploit anything about you and your life and what you're going through, but because I know that somewhere out there, and probably within the mutual crowd that we know, and possibly within my group of friends or in your group of friends, that we don't know from each other, that somebody else is dealing with this too, and hopefully somebody can hear this and realize what a fucking nightmare this has been for you. But as long as they can listen all the way through the end of this episode, realize you know what.
Speaker 2:It's time for me to start too and maybe they will well, like I said, I think it acknowledged the the next step for me you know, so, yeah, it's there now, you just have to take it. I probably shouldn't listen to your podcast while I'm driving, though I will admit that I should probably do that while I'm sitting still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably. I know it can get a little bit emotional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 1:Well, even though we are going to have a part two of this interview, because you got through the hard part, you will now be rewarded with a whole bunch of random questions, right? This is the way we end every interview. So we, as I've said with everybody, we try to end things on a little bit of light note. So I will get this up and have it spit out some random questions to me. Hopefully it will, as I always say, it doesn't intentionally have anything to do with what we just talked about. If it does, it's totally not my fault. I can't program the stupid random algorithm on Excel. Let's see what happens. You ready?
Speaker 2:I will give it a shot.
Speaker 1:All right, what is your favorite food? My favorite food Shit. Yeah, I like eating that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that is my favorite food.
Speaker 1:You eat pieces of shit for breakfast.
Speaker 2:Yes, as an adult, you eat a lot of that. I have quite a. I mean I'm fat. I have quite a few favorite foods, but I think my staple if given the opportunity the option is angel hair with clam sauce.
Speaker 1:Nice, what is the coolest feature in your house?
Speaker 2:I think I like our balcony because you can see the mountain. We have an upstairs balcony with a little couple of chairs and a little fireplace.
Speaker 1:That's a good view. What is the kindest thing that somebody ever did for you?
Speaker 2:I've actually been lucky that way. I've had a lot of.
Speaker 1:That's a good problem to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't keep a big circle, right, but the circle that I do keep are very tremendous. Honestly, I think my best friend, I think his and my relationship, has evolved as we've now hit the 50s right, we acknowledge a lot of things and even though we joke just the recognition of how valuable we are to each other, right, that's probably the one of the more kindest things that I've come across in my life. I love it. What is one of your nicknames Precious? Well, it's actually funny. When I moved to Arizona, I was, I was working for a company and I was just technician as a field technician, and we had these meetings in the parking lot right before we go out and do our jobs.
Speaker 2:Okay and you know me some smart ass right, and I'm from New York, so I'm in this parking lot with about 60 people and the supervisor at the time was busting my chops a little bit, so of, of course, you know that's a challenge. So I made a few little comments here or there and I got him with one, so much so that he went to say something to me, but he couldn't pronounce my last name. So he starts going. You know what? Praga, praga, praga, praga, praga, precious. And I went, that's going to stick. And sure as shit. Not only did it stick, dude, I started getting our customers would send me emails and our corporate office would send me mail and inside it were sticky notes that said Precious, they had my official name, but it would say Precious on a sticky note.
Speaker 2:As I moved up in the company and became supervisor and stuff like that dealt with the utility customers, I would get emails. Hey, precious, can you take care of this for me? Oh yeah, like I said, so much so that when we have new classes of technicians here at my company, when I introduce myself, I tell them look, this is my name. My name's Eric, blah, blah, blah, I'm the assistant state manager, this and that, the other thing. And I said just so you know if anyone asks you thing. And I said just so you know, if anyone asks you, have you spoken to Precious? That is me. I don't take offense to it, it doesn't bother me, it won't hurt me, and every class is at least one person that will wait as I'm walking across the parking lot or something and go, hey, precious, and I turn around and I go, yeah, what's up? And they look and they're so disappointed. They want me to be upset. They want you to be pissed. Yeah, they want me to be pissed, but it's been 12 years I've had that nickname.
Speaker 1:Since you have mentioned it and since people will see this episode and like I wonder how you pronounce that name. Tell everybody how you do pronounce your last name.
Speaker 2:Oh, do you mean that phonically didn't help you?
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no, I got it. You know what it took me to do that. How do?
Speaker 2:you pronounce it.
Speaker 1:You know what it took me to do that. I was like, phonically, what do you have to like, look this up? I did actually. I absolutely I looked up the phonic alphabet thing.
Speaker 2:I absolutely did. I love that you wrote in capital. It's just like a dictionary. You emphasize the peer. I did well, because that's what it said to do. I actually I did look it up, I'm not lying okay, that's good thing.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know. Yeah, I mean I know how to say it. Right'm like how do I make?
Speaker 2:him say it, but it's Pyrrhic, nolan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I knew that, but I'm just having some fun.
Speaker 2:Unless, of course, you want to go full Italian, then it's Pyrrhic Nolan, pyrrhic Nolan.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, if you talk to my older cousins, or dissent, they say here the reason I brought up because, like you know that form that you felt that's not getting published, that's just thank god. Thank you for that. Yes, I mean I don't think there was really. I mean I could go back and look. I don't think there was really anything that was so revealing. Not like there's any naked pictures or anything. That's in a separate email, separate, completely separate.
Speaker 2:The 3 am texts that we said yes, what I'm calling for an interview yeah, if my cell phone ever gets hacked, I'm fucked yeah, no shit we all are my one of my other close friends.
Speaker 2:We, we say colorful things to each other all the time, constantly, and you know we say everyone we joke about. Like you know, if anyone ever overheard us talking, they would think we were the most vile pieces of shit in the world. But the fact is we say the things that we say because don't have power, right, if you make a joke out of it, you just say whatever and it's fun and and it just takes the. It takes the angst away from it and the hate away from it and the nastiness away from it. It's like, yeah, no, that stuff doesn't bother me, I don't take it seriously.
Speaker 1:So I know we're not going to give any examples, but no we promise you that everybody who's listening this, when they, when we first started talking about that, they said I do that too. Everybody and anybody who does says that they don't do it. You're full of shit, right, you're completely full of shit. That's right, okay let's go back to the questions.
Speaker 1:That was fun. Are you active? Yes, of course you are. Are you active on social media? Yeah, I'm social media slut. You are a social media slut. Would you media? Yeah, I'm a social media slut. You are a social media slut. Would you rather sleep in late or take a long nap in the middle of the day?
Speaker 2:Honestly neither. But I do because I'm fucking old, so I don't sleep in. I don't sleep very well. So in the middle of the day on a weekend I can hit a 45-minute drooling nap, but it just contributes to the not sleeping at night.
Speaker 1:I've also found it's rare for me to take a nap in the middle of the day. Usually, if I get to a point where I have had bad sleep for three consecutive nights, then the next day I will either go to sleep really early, like eight o'clock, or I will need to take a nap in the middle of the day.
Speaker 2:I think that question needs to be prefaced with when you were younger. Would you prefer to sleep in or take a nap? And or when you're older, because I think it's very different, Because when we were younger I could sleep on a dime anyway.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, since you brought it up when you were a kid, would you rather have slept in late or take a nap?
Speaker 2:Slept in late because the day started at 11 and extended through the evening into the midnight hours, that's because of those three-day parties that you were part of. Yes, I think we all used to end up in the Taco Bell parking lot, right.
Speaker 1:That was the one place I didn't. I probably ended up in the parking lot, but I never ate at Taco Bell. I just never had any interest. No, I did, I blame my ninth grade science teacher, mr Paul, in William Packard Junior High School, who I loved, by the way. One day he brought in he was trying to show us an experiment. So he brought in packets of the fire sauce from Taco Bell and he had a couple of like old, grungy, corroded looking pennies.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad I didn't watch that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like 20, 30 year old pennies and they were just like they were faded and they were dark and they had garbage all over them. So he would take one of those little petri dishes because it was a science class and he put some sauce in there and then he put a penny in there, put a little sauce on and just leave it for a couple of minutes and he would come back and just take a tissue or a napkin or something and just like a quick little wipe and it looked like it just came off the printing press.
Speaker 2:So you got screwed. So he told you he showed you how not to enjoy something. I had Mrs Arcadis, who brought baklava to class. So you had a shitty science teacher. I had an awesome one.
Speaker 1:Oh man, why couldn't we have class where we had baklava?
Speaker 2:Same same. But you know, I think we lucked out. We had some pretty significantly amazing teachers.
Speaker 1:I never had miss arcadis as a teacher, but she was great yeah, no, I, I lucked out.
Speaker 2:Uh, I had mr barry and this or this or oh mr barry I never had him either, but I knew him and man great man, yeah him dressed up and singing henry viii was epic.
Speaker 1:you know, I did get to witness that and yeah, yeah, I think we all did, for the most part Okay.
Speaker 2:I think the only one that was ever mean to me was Miss Greencastle in sixth grade.
Speaker 1:I never met her, never met her.
Speaker 2:Miss Greencastle. Oh, miss Greenstein Greenstein, she was mean.
Speaker 1:Yes, old lady Ruth Greenstein. Yeah, she was mean and the only reason I know that her first name is Ruth and you can probably if you had her then you can relate to this she made us on the day one of the class made everybody say their names and she, like, started. She said my name is Ruth Greenstein and then the first person that was in the front row of the row of desks closest to the door that person had say it and then she would start again. Door that person had say it and then she would start again. And then it would go like you know, one person would get added to the chain. Each time everybody had to say the person's full name so that we all knew who each other were yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:that's probably childhood trauma for me, because if, if you realize what you had to ask me my last name, so alphabetical order in class, after being traumatized for like first five years of my life, as soon as the guy in front of me or the girl in front of me that was the p said their name and I knew I was next and the teacher would go eric, and I go back here here, fucking here, please don't say it here. I'm here, eric is fine. I'm here, eric is good.
Speaker 1:Yes, because you know the torment that went on after the mispronunciation well, you got to deal with your name getting mispronounced all the time. At least you didn't grow up with the name of Gaylord, that is true. That is true, you got me there, brother, I was absolutely destroyed in school for years because of that name, Having the last name of Gaylord, being the fat kid having a giant head. I had the trifecta. It was bad.
Speaker 2:I think it was the neon patent and short shit that did it for you. Bro, I'm just gonna throw it out there.
Speaker 1:I don't think it was anything else. Okay, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that, but no, but that's because kids yeah, that's because kids are horrible. Just because my brothers are assholes. Yes, that's okay. Um, the next question that comes up is what is the strangest thing you ever saw walking down the street? If you had seen me with that outfit, you'd probably say that.
Speaker 2:The strangest thing I've ever seen. Well, I worked in Manhattan overnight 6 pm to 6 am, so yeah, I don't know that I can measure strangeness anymore. The things that I saw a guy on 2nd Avenue. He looked like Dolph Lundgren and he was in a thong tutu.
Speaker 1:Oh dear god, so that's frightening I'm just gonna yeah, I mean yeah, visual yeah, it was traumatizing at best.
Speaker 2:It was funny as shit though. But oh, I'm sure it was. I've seen I saw some exception. I'll send you. Actually, I have a couple pictures of some other things I saw in manhattan.
Speaker 1:I'll send them to you yeah, I would love to see it. Yeah, here's a question that I will preface with when you were younger, kind of like how you put a in bed at the end of every Chinese fortune cookie, fortune Right. Just to start with, when you were younger, can you touch your toes without bending your knees?
Speaker 2:Dude, I can't touch my toes without passing out.
Speaker 1:So passing out. So yeah, no, I gotta hold the dresser to put. To put boxes on these days. Yeah, no, or lean up against the wall or something.
Speaker 2:Actually it's funny because, uh, I I got my first pair of cowboy boots when I was living here in arizona, okay, and because the company offered boot programs, so I got free boots and a bunch of the guys were buying these cowboy boot styles so I was like I'll give it a shot. Nice, I almost passed out trying to put these things on because they were a nightmare to get on yes, the salesman and my two buddies were laughing so hard I swear they might have pissed themselves.
Speaker 1:I was struggling and huffing and turning purple yeah, if lynn has that on video, he does not money that I would. Ah damn, the amount of money I would pay for that video would probably finance your trip to Ireland that Kim is going to put up.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, she has other things on video that you would probably find hysterical too, that she is not allowed to share and the risk of being divorced.
Speaker 1:Ah well, lynn, when you decide to listen to this, I won't tell them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't tell me, because you won't be able to hold it in.
Speaker 1:I know you showed my father, which is probably she showed your father.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, after my stepbrother passed away you know, my father was obviously in a sad state, sure, and to make him laugh, she sent him one of the clips of a video of me up at our cabin after drinking moonshine. I don't remember the night, so I'm so thankful that it's in video.
Speaker 1:Just what you need is a video of a night you don't remember.
Speaker 2:I'll never be president because of that video.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think either one of us are going to be president. I'm pretty sure neither one of us are going to be president, I won't even manage a 7-Eleven with that video. No, I don't think either one of us are ever going to run for elected office based on the things we've said, the people that we know and whatever shit of us is out there. Absolutely, If there's a spider in your house, will you kill it or set it free. It depends on the kind of spider.
Speaker 2:I used to be a kill it kind of guy because it's in my house, but no, I've learned a lot about spiders living out here. So it depends. If it's a brown recluse, I'm smashing that son of a bitch and maybe setting the house on fire. Nice. If it's a wolf spider, I'm leaving it alone, because they kill all the other spiders. So it just depends, right? Tarantulas are also cool. I used to be afraid of them, but they're actually kind of gentle, very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never held a tarantula. I don't bother anybody, so.
Speaker 2:I'm cool with them. I'm fine to leave a spider alone.
Speaker 1:I don't like. Just because I see a spider, especially if it's outside, I don't need to kill it or anything like that. But there's only a certain distance that I will allow to come between me and a spider. Spiders and bees.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, well, I make a deal. If I see a spider and it's like a wolf spider or something, I'll go bro, not in the bathroom Garage. That's our deal. Come up here again.
Speaker 1:Stay in the garage, that's right. What the hell Would you rather be besties with Beyonce or Rihanna?
Speaker 2:Really, do I have to choose? Yes, you kind of do. I mean it's based on the choices. It'll be hands down. Rihanna, okay, but you know I'm not sure that's like my bestie kind of area, I mean. You know, I mean Marissa Tomei or Joe Pesci. I'm with you.
Speaker 1:What object do you lose or misplace the most, besides my mind? Well, I'm not sure that's ever coming back for either one of us.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? I think I would have to say my glasses, because I started wearing glasses again for night driving and, you know, because that shit's so expensive. I only have one pair and I ended up leaving them in the personal truck or leaving them in the work truck or leaving them on the table. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:What is your middle name? August?
Speaker 2:August. I don't think I ever knew that Because I never told anybody. That's right. Actually, thank God, my mother was a strong Italian lady from Brooklyn because my grandfather, my dad's father, wanted me to be named after him, and so my mom I'll tell you in a second, you'll dig it. So my mom was in the hospital and she gave birth to me in the hospital my dad worked at. So of course my mom knew the nurses and the doctors and all these people right, so she told the nurse that she'd have to come in after visiting hours in the middle of the night to do the birth certificate, because I was almost, and could you imagine the beatings that I would get? I was almost august romeo period, no, wow. So thanks to my mom, I was knocked August Romeo. So the compromise was my middle name.
Speaker 1:What made her want to give you the name August he?
Speaker 2:wanted it. My grandfather wanted August as my first name. He wanted August Romeo. My mother did not. The compromise, so that he wouldn't go bananas, was to make it middle name. August, that's true compromise, so that he wouldn't go bananas was to make it middle name. And then she, she wanted names for my brother and I that were difficult to make, abbreviations for, you know, and nicknames for which. That didn't really work out. But we'll cross that bridge another day.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right. Last question Click there. Okay, what is your hidden talent?
Speaker 2:talent I don't know that I have a hidden talent. So much so. But I mean, I think the one thing is, you know I can be a tremendous asshole just because I like to be fun and all. But if you're a friend of mine, there's no time of the day or night you can't call me to get me on a phone or get you get me to to come help with something I don't know. That's so much a talent. But about the biggest gift I have, I think that's a good one.
Speaker 1:A lot of people say they'll do it and don't always do it. Well, the reciprocation rarely happens.
Speaker 2:I have a couple friends Like I know. If I called my buddy Ben right now, he's like my best friend since wheel five. I called him right now and said I really need you to be here. He will be here on a plane tonight. I know that factually he may make fun of me the entire time and call me names and, you know, beat me down verbally and mentally, but he'll be at my door.
Speaker 1:But let me ask you this Would you deserve it if he did that? I?
Speaker 2:think I always deserve it. All right, that's how the friendships roll. That's exactly how they roll. That's how we're able to sustain so much in our lives, and not get offended yeah, it's like oh, what'd you call me? My best friend called me that you go away and hurt my feelings.
Speaker 1:That's right well, was this as horrible as you thought it was going to be? Maybe a little bit worse?
Speaker 2:I don't think. I don't think I thought it was going to be horrible. Uh, my biggest thing was would I be able to control? Did the spill spill out of the blubbering? That's all, and it took a bit, but I was able to control it for the most part. Thankfully, it's a verbal podcast and not a visual one, right?
Speaker 1:Well, not yet. I mean, maybe one day the YouTube Maybe one day Mission after I die.
Speaker 2:What I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:After you die, okay, well, fortunately that's not going to happen anytime soon, so I guess your video episode will probably be the last one to ever be released.
Speaker 2:There you go, see. That's why I love you, cause you get it.
Speaker 1:That's right, I get it. I feel you. I can't thank you enough. Seriously, it means a lot that you were willing to do this and thank you for putting everything out there and obviously we will talk plenty. But there will be a part two at some point. I will say I'll even say sometime, probably next year, because let's get you through the rest of this year through your grandchild being. Do you know if it's a boy?
Speaker 2:or a girl. Yet I do not. They are going to find out. I'm just consistently praying for healthy, exactly. You know so. And then you know, of course, the the selfish side of me, the Italian side of me. I would love a boy, you know, for the namesake, but the having a grandchild in essence, boy or girl, could care less. What I do know is my grandchild will be savage. Oh yeah, my, my niece hit me up and she's like I don't know if I should. I feel bad, but this baby is going to be, you're going to be its grandfather. And I said my, my grandchild's going to be a savage. And she goes. I know, and I go. Don't feel bad, that's right, don't feel bad. And she was, I know, Just felt the need to say it. She likes to bust my chops, so who doesn't that? That's what. I'm good with it, that's right. I tell my kids, you know, there's no need to put hands on somebody if you can destroy them emotionally quick-witted sarcasm.
Speaker 1:What's the video? Well, there's a bunch of videos where somebody just gets emotionally just put down and then that guy that throws the video remote control down, the game control down, it says emotional damage, emotional damage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, that should have been you saying that, that's right, a bruise goes away, but deep-rooted sarcasm just sticks with them for life.
Speaker 1:That's right. Well, the best part about it is-. We're on a trauma podcast and I'm talking about yeah, we're on a trauma podcast and we're talking about destroying people emotionally.
Speaker 2:Dark humor bro. Dark humor at its best I used to buy.
Speaker 1:I promise you there is nobody listening to this. That can't relate. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Oh, I appreciate you bro.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you. We will do this again soon. We will talk soon and in the meantime, you guys have a great weekend and you too Don't get into any trouble. Or, you know, keep the trouble limited.
Speaker 2:You limited, uh, you know somewhat, just not to the point where lynn has to bail you out of the, out of jail twice this weekend. I mean, we don't do bail, so I can't get in that much trouble. Every time I go to do something stupid I think I can't afford to get out. So, yeah, I'm really not going to do this since, like you know, I have back problems and shit.
Speaker 1:I can't go to jail yeah, no, you're not physically capable of doing anything too stupid, stupid, yeah, exactly, the mind is there, but my mind might get me in trouble in prison. I'm just going to say, yeah, that's oh boy. See, that might be a whole separate episode, absolutely.
Speaker 2:All right, brother, you enjoy your weekend. Tell the missus. We said hey, I will Tell her that we heard her burp. Oh, I will. We didn't really hear it. But then she asked the question and we all knew she did. Yeah, she acknowledged it.
Speaker 1:I know, but we didn't hear it. No one knew.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I barely think that I heard it just because she was right next to me and I recognized that she was trying to cover it up. But awesome, I did Enjoy your weekend. You too Love you, brother. I love you too, man.
Speaker 1:More than 40 years later, eric still finds himself stuck within so much unprocessed grief. Sometimes it's easier to process loss, but, as we found out today, that's not always the case. We talked about it during the interview. Eric and I have talked about it since, and there will be a part two of this interview sometime next year. You all know that I'm a huge advocate of dark humor, as are my brothers and my friends who have been so widely mentioned on this show, and Eric clearly is as well. But, as we discussed today, deflection is something that only delays the inevitable. Eric recognizes that and admits that he has a lot that he needs to get into the deeper end of, and that's what we will get into in part two.
Speaker 1:I would like to thank Eric for being willing to come on the podcast and discuss what has clearly been a very emotional journey, showing that, no matter how old we get or how far removed we are from loss, it never fully leaves us and we have to figure out how to deal with it. If you have a story of grief and loss to share and might want to be considered as a future guest of Our Dead Dads, go to OurDeadDadscom, go to the Contact Us link and then select Be a Guest, fill out the form, send it in and you just might be able to tell your story and carry on this mission of helping ourselves and helping so many others. Again, there are no rules to navigating grief and there's no timeline for doing it either. Everybody needs to go at their own pace, but the most important part is taking the very first step. Whether you want to tell your own story or you just want to listen to others tell their stories, the most important thing to understand is that nobody is alone in grief or should ever feel like they don't have someone who will talk to them or listen to them here at Our Dead Dads, within the safe space of this community. You always have both.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening, and join me again next week when I'm joined by John Gerst, another childhood friend of mine.
Speaker 1:I met John back in Boy Scouts when I was nine years old. On my 10th birthday, I learned that I shared my birthday with John's dad, john Sr, who became one of several important male figures in my childhood and helped shape me into who I am today. John lost his dad almost 30 years ago and the conversation that we had marked the first time that we saw each other since his dad's funeral in 1996. We reconnected many years ago thanks to social media, but hadn't had a chance to really talk until I saw John's recent series of posts on Facebook about a surprise trip back to New York that his wife planned for his 50th birthday. This was not only a conversation about grief but a much-needed stroll down memory lane for both of us. Make sure you're following Our Dead Dads on your favorite podcast streaming platform, because you will not want to miss this episode or any other upcoming episode. This is Our Dead Dads, where we are changing the world one damaged soul at a time. See you next time.