Our Dead Dads
The concept of Our Dead Dads was born through the daily discussions of seven men who share bonds of blood, friendship and all having lost their fathers. Nick Gaylord, the show’s host, shares his life experiences with his deceased father while exploring the complications and realities of that relationship. Life is intense, grief and loss come in many forms, and no parent-child relationship is black and white, which is why this show touches on all shades of grey.
Join Nick for candid conversations with his three brothers and three of his lifelong friends, along with other special guests who discuss their experiences with loss, grief, laughter, and moving forward. Nothing is off-limits here. Nick learned after his father's passing that he couldn't process what he was going through alone and sought the help of a therapist, who helped him to let go of his anger toward his father. Looking back, he realized just how many people are being crushed under the weight of grief, loss, and in some cases, anger.
Nick's mission through Our Dead Dads is to offer a platform for anyone who needs or wants to tell their story, to have that opportunity. He also hopes to reach many more who need to talk but don't know how to start the conversation, hopeful that by listening to these stories, they will be able to start talking with someone.
Nick has always sought to help others and to make everyone around him laugh. Along with his brothers and friends, he has frequently used humor to get through the hardest times in their lives, and hopefully, you will permit yourself to do the same. Get ready for an emotional deep dive. Nick has a lot to say and so do his guests. He's here for you and ready to help. Everyone has been through trauma, grief, and loss. Now, along with Nick and his guests, everyone will get through it together.
Nick is changing the world one damaged soul at a time. Welcome to Our Dead Dads.
Our Dead Dads
033 - Building Resilience and Unity from Grief's Shadow - Tony Lynch
What if the path through grief could forge an unbreakable community bond? Join us as we unravel the compelling life journey of Tony Lynch, an international best-selling author and grief advocate, who has turned personal turmoil into a beacon of hope for others. From academic triumphs to the depths of prison, Tony's experiences not only highlight the resilience of the human spirit but also the power of shared stories in healing. Throughout our conversation, Tony underscores the importance of normalizing discussions around grief and introduces his latest project—a magazine dedicated to extending his mission of support and healing.
This episode also sheds light on the often silent struggle of men's mental health, particularly in the wake of COVID-19’s challenges. Tony's candid observations about humor as a coping mechanism reveal a side of grief that is rarely discussed yet deeply human. As we prepare to reintroduce weekly panel discussions, we commit to ensuring no aspect of grief and mental health goes unnoticed. Together, we explore the significance of steadfast companionship and active support for those in crisis, emphasizing the powerful message that "you are enough."
Tony’s narrative is more than a personal story—it's a call to action. Learn how he founded "Memories of Us," a nonprofit dedicated to men's grief support, and the journey to becoming a keystone of community growth. Through personal anecdotes, we touch upon the essence of mentorship, continuous learning, and the importance of holding space for others. As Tony shares his transformative experiences, he challenges us all to embrace our unique gifts and leave a lasting legacy of resilience and authenticity.
TONY'S LINKS:
Website: https://www.mensgriefsupport.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tony.lynch.188
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mensgriefsupport/
GRIEF LET'S TALK ABOUT IT PODCAST:
https://www.youtube.com/@griefletstalkaboutit
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Hello and welcome to Our Dead Dads, the podcast where we normalize talking about grief, trauma, loss and moving forward. I'm your host. My name is Nick Gaylord. Thank you so much for listening and making this show part of your day. Thank you for continuing to support the show and, if you haven't already, please subscribe and follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you're listening on right now, and do that so that you don't ever miss any episodes. Please leave a review and give the show a five-star rating. If you don't know how to leave a review, check out our website, ourdeaddadscom. Scroll down on the homepage and you will see a step-by-step guide on how to do that. You can also follow the show on our social media pages on TikTok, facebook and Instagram, and please keep spreading the word about the show. We dive deep into stories of grief, trauma and loss, and this is to give everyone who has a story to share the chance to do so. And, equally as important, we're looking for everyone who has a story and either hasn't begun processing their grief or doesn't know how to begin. Okay, we have a lot to get into today.
Speaker 1:Before we start today's interview, there are some huge breaking news to share with you. New year, new merch. That, that's right. We finally have the merch store open. Men's t-shirts, ladies t-shirts, sweatshirts, hoodies, baseball hats, boat hats, mugs, rocks, glasses, shot glasses, tumblers and travel mugs. So much merch. The store is fully stocked, so get over to ourdeaddadscom, look for the yellow merch button in the upper right hand corner and head over to the store. You'll all figure this out soon enough. But just a heads up that for all of the clothing items that you see listed, the picture shown is not the only color that that particular item is available in. Hoodies and men's t-shirts are available from sizes small to 5x, and they're available in eight different colors. Sweatshirts and ladies t-shirts are available in sizes small to 3x, and they're available in six different colors. Click into any of the items that you'd like to know more about and, if you decide to buy, you'll be able to choose from the list of sizes and colors. One of my favorite additions to the store is the new line of items featuring the Fueled by Tears and Dark Humor logo. So much merch. Check it out. There's plenty to go around for everybody, and thank you so much for being so patient and supporting the show by purchasing merch. No-transcript your feedback Now that we got the merch out of the way, let's get down to business and talk about why we're all here Today's episode number 33 and I'm joined by my wonderful friend, podcaster, international best-selling author and grief advocate, tony Lynch.
Speaker 1:Tony and I touched on so many topics during our conversation, mostly because we just have such an organic conversation every time we talk, and today was no different when we started touching on the grief portion of the story. Tony tells a story like you've rarely heard on this show before A childhood that started off with top academics, progressed into family loss, getting involved with the wrong crowd, selling drugs and selling guns, before finding himself in prison and years later, through all the pain, loss and despair, being seconds away from taking his own life before he realized what he was really put on this earth to do, and that was to help others through their pain and suffering. It hasn't been an easy life by any stretch of the imagination, but, like all of us, tony has a story and I'm honored that he's here to talk about all of it. As you know, my goal at Our Dead Dads is to normalize talking about grief, loss and trauma, which are topics that are not easy for most of us to talk about, but they are also topics that everybody should be discussing more Not only discussing them, but not feeling like they're taboo topics.
Speaker 1:Time may not heal all wounds, but keeping everything bottled up inside does not heal any of them.
Speaker 1:Together, we are building a community for others to have a safe space to talk about their stories and their feelings, and for anyone who may not yet be ready to talk, just to listen to others and know that no one is alone in this path. That is why I say we are a community and I'm so happy to have you here. If you have a story of grief and loss to share and might want to be considered as a future guest on Our Dead Dads, go to OurDeadDadscom, go to the contact us link and then select be a guest, fill out the form and send it in, and you just might be able to tell your story and carry on this mission of helping ourselves and so many others. You've been patient enough and now it's time to talk to tony. Please enjoy the show and stick around for the end when I'll tell you about next week's episode. Mr T, what's going on, my brother? What's up, sir? How are you? Oh man, I am blessed and favored, highly favored.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear that. You know I started the magazine. It's been doing really well, just with the first one that we got out, and the second one is coming out real soon. Send me your information for your podcast, so I definitely will.
Speaker 1:I definitely will. You know what? Why don't we just start right there? We've got a lot of stories to tell. You've got a lot of grief to talk about, so we're going to go, we're ripping off the swimmies, we're going into the deep end of this. Let's start with you telling everybody about the magazine, because that's going to be huge and there's a lot that's going to come out about that in the next few months or so, and by the time that this episode airs, we will already be well underway with this project. So let's give everybody some heads up about what you've got going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most definitely man. So I just started a magazine called Grief Talk Magazine. It's the first ever magazine dedicated to grief, trauma and mental health and it's an effort. It was a way to support our communities by showcasing articles from different people that are in the field right and they're giving healthy tips on how to deal with certain things that people may encounter. And also it's another way to support those that are in the field, bringing recognition to them, shining a light on them. So we started a new segment and I just dropped the first one just over a week ago. It's been doing really well. The downloads are through the roof.
Speaker 1:That's amazing Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you Really, totally unexpected, right. And so I decided you know, with this one and moving forward, that I wanted to add in a few more things you know, like letters to your loved ones. So if people have a letter that they would like to submit to the magazine and have it showcased and things like that, they can submit it in Events. So anything that people have going on fundraisers, groups, anything of that nature, send it over there to us, because we're going to be updating it every month so people know where to find these things.
Speaker 2:No matter where you are in the United States, we want to make sure that people are informed, that they know where these things are going on at, so they can also get the support that they need. And then podcasts. So I've been reaching out to a lot of podcasters saying, hey, send me over your information, I would love to put your podcast in the magazine to showcase what you do, and that way, people know where to find these awesome podcasts by these amazing people and also partners, so people can know who I'm partnering with and et cetera, our sponsors, et cetera, things like that. And it's also a way of people getting in contact with these individuals so they can start getting everything that they need need. So when I say that I'm all about the community, man, and supporting my fellow grief workers, mental health practitioners, trauma-informed coaches and things like that and podcasters, I'm all about it, man.
Speaker 1:I really am A thousand percent and luckily you and I have had many conversations to this point before today. We've gotten to know each other pretty well and it looks like we're going to be working together for quite a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm tired of seeing men struggling with addiction because people don't know how to support them. It's time to change the narrative on a lot of things, and so that's my goal now moving forward, just changing the narrative, supporting those men, getting them the support that they need and rightfully deserve, but also educating other people on how to create an atmosphere so men can feel comfortable and safe to talk.
Speaker 1:That's something that we have talked a lot about. You and I have talked together about it. I've talked a lot on this podcast and I've said from day one that my whole mission with this podcast is I mean, it's so many things Creating a safe space, environment to talk about grief, trauma, loss, moving forward, all of it for anybody. I have said many times that I would love to have conversations specifically with men, because I know that you know, obviously, my perspective is the male perspective. Growing up, we were largely when I say we, I mean men, boys we were largely taught don't talk about this, it doesn't need to be discussed. I've said in the past that there are times in my young life when I was told, leave this to the women, which I've always thought was bullshit. This can't continue and it largely isn't as bad today as it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. But it's still not anywhere close to perfect and men still have the idea that we need to be strong, we need to be big, strong men, we need to take care of everybody. Yeah, I'm guilty of that sometimes. I'm sure you're guilty of it sometimes too. I get it. But we need to create an environment where everybody, every single person men, women, children who need help, who need to talk to somebody, have that place to talk and have their feelings validated, know that what they're going through, what they're feeling, is real and they don't need to justify it to anybody. Nobody needs to justify what they're going through. When you're dealing with something, when you're dealing with grief, you don't need to justify it.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, some of us feel like we have to, and I'm sure that some women sometimes feel like they have to too, either, if they feel like they either have to focus on work, have to focus on their families, or whatever it is. We all are in situations where we've been taught by society, or made to feel by society where it's not as important as everything else. Move on, rub some dirt on it, get over it. Get over it is the biggest thing that so many people hear. Get the fuck out of here. We don't need to get over it, we need to get through it, and it's not as simple as everybody would like it to conveniently be. It just isn't. So I love that you have been doing this work for so long. I love that you've put together the magazine. There are so many things going on because there's a lot of help that is needed in the grief community. A lot of people don't realize that.
Speaker 2:That is very true. I don't know if people have seen it or not, but those that follow me on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn know that I just revamped my old organization, which is the GGN, the Global Grief Network, and so it's a place where us, as grief practitioners, mental health practitioners, trauma-informed coaches come and we come together, we collaborate and we network with each other to build those partnerships in order to do exactly what you just said to have that impact in that community. Right, it's just a great way for people to know who we are, but it's also a great place for us in the grief community to support each other. Right, because the biggest thing that I find that, since I've been in this field, is that we often don't have people to talk to or we are often misunderstood because of our sense of humor and things like that, right, and people don't understand. When you're in the grief field, we find things very entertaining that you may not find entertaining, so it's great to be around like-minded individuals. Yes, we find humor.
Speaker 1:We find dark humor as a way to get through things and a lot of people I've found that a lot of people do get that. I was a little worried that maybe my sense of humor was a little bit warped and kind of on an island by myself, but I've been realizing over the last several months that's not the case. I definitely have a shared sense of humor with a lot of people. But yeah, you know, sometimes humor, and especially dark humor, is how we get through these things.
Speaker 2:Right? Well, you can't have the best of it. You have to make the best of it. Of course you do.
Speaker 2:Grief can be a very sad thing if you don't understand it, right? Those of us that are in the field or have walked this path and have chosen to do good things in it, we often look at certain things and go you know what? This would be freaking hilarious if somebody did this. Right, and it's not against anyone or anything like that. It's just like look at the other side of it, right, and it's not against anyone or anything like that. It's just like, you know. Like, look at the other side of it, right, you know, and so it can be. I'm right there with you.
Speaker 2:Like, the more and more I'm around individuals, like-minded individuals, heart-centered individuals in this field, the more and more I feel very normal about my sense of humor, right? Oh, yeah, because we're quick to say things, just things, and people that don't understand. They look at us and go what in the world, why are you joking about that? That's freaking hilarious, right? Yeah, and I think that's why we love doing the podcast, because we can be surrounded by like-minded individuals, heart-centered individuals, people that downright get it, but they're amazing people. They're amazing people, and I want to go back to what you had said in the beginning. You know about looking at men the way that we, the way that we're in. Too right? Yes, it sure does.
Speaker 2:Because in the community that you're in, they may not see the other side of it. Over here, they just see what's going over, which can be huge in a lot of ways. So it's a matter of combining everything and seeing everything not just from the 180 point of view but from the 360 point of view, and then stepping outside of there and breaking it down so we can pinpoint those avenues that need to be go down, to bring that awareness out. You know, you're right, this is not the 50s, it's definitely not the 60s or the 70s. We're in the 2000s. And you know, the crazy part about it is and I wish this wasn't true, but I do a lot of data collecting. When it comes down to you know where the statistics are with men.
Speaker 2:And what I found was just within like the last since COVID. As a matter of fact and people can go back and fact check this the rate of suicides, homelessness, addiction, mental health issues and things like that have risen substantially. It has risen substantially, have risen substantially. It has risen substantially.
Speaker 2:And just recently and I want to say this with all due respect I lost another friend. He lost his battle with alcoholism and, you know, after talking with his family and find out what was going on, he was dealing with unresolved grief, unresolved trauma, feeling like he had been abandoned, and he had a wife and a child and you know, which leaves the questions to them why wasn't I enough? And I'm about to go through another one as well, where I have another client and I've known this guy for quite some years and I've watched him go down the path of addiction and dealing with grief, guilt, unresolved trauma, being molested as a child, alcoholism addiction, and he finally just went over the edge with he combined fentanyl, heroin and meth and decided to shoot it up. Now he's in the hospital and they're about ready to pull the plug on him.
Speaker 2:Good man, good man, but I say that to say this those are just two cases amongst the millions of men out there struggling right now. You know I got this shirt. You know, and trust me, I'm not being sponsored by them or anything like that, but I love this shirt because it says you are enough and on the back, you know, there's a little saying up there and I wear this in honor of those individuals. It doesn't matter if you're male or female. I love, I honor those individuals by saying you are enough. You know, and there is support out there. There's more support now. This is one of the benefits of being in the 2000s, right? There's more support now. There's more people talking and bringing awareness than there's ever been. We're in a good time.
Speaker 2:The problem is people don't know where to find them, right? So we have to do we have to do our due diligence to make sure that people know that these resources, that these individuals are out there and that we give a damn about you. You know not just the one part that you want to talk about. We give a damn about the things that you don't say, neither, right, the things that you're hiding because you think no one wants to hear it and we leave nobody out those who have lost pets.
Speaker 2:I'm actually right now, before I got on the phone with you, I was coming up with the new panel discussions for the GGN and because we started off doing panel discussions, so we're talking about everything, we're bringing it back once a week, panel discussions with the family and we dive in deep into those topics that most people want to hear about but they're afraid to put it out there. I'm like, no, let's not be afraid, let's discuss it, let's talk about it and to also get different perspectives. So people, so individuals that may be going through a particular thing, they can relate.
Speaker 2:It's all valid. Yeah, it's all valid, right? You and I both talked about this. There's no wrong way to do grief. You just have to have people to bring these things to light and to be able to be willing to say the quiet parts out loud, like you said. You know what I'm saying. This is, and I cannot say this. I'm going to say this unapologetically.
Speaker 2:The way that some people treat certain things is bullshit. It's absolutely bullshit. It's absolutely bullshit. No one should be criticized for the way that they feel, because who are we as human beings to tell another person the way that they feel? No one should be criticized the way that you know. If they feel like they're a victim, then find out why they feel like they're a victim, because you don't know their story. You can't criticize them because it didn't happen to you.
Speaker 1:And even if you know their story, who the fuck are we to criticize? Anybody.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't tell people you know not to do this and all of these different things. We have to do better, yes, and I think, I believe that we all have a role to play in this world, and it's time that we do exactly what we're called to do. No more hiding in the shadows, get our asses out there. It's time to do the work that we're called to do and it's time to support one another.
Speaker 2:Nick man, look, I'm just a guy from Virginia that's gone through some hell of a shit. Look, I'm just a guy from Virginia that's gone through some hell of a shit and I know if I can sit around and do the stuff that I do. There's so many amazing people out there that's so much better than me, right, and I want to see them do it Right. Yeah, the magazine was just one of those things. I was sitting around. I was like you know what? I'm wondering what else I can do? Right, because you and I talked about it and I think I mentioned it briefly and then, shortly after that, I went on. The simple program was like I'm going to do it right, and here we are, you know, and thank you for everyone out there who have been supporting it and they can find it moving forward. They can go to the website and actually get it off of there.
Speaker 1:It will be subscription based as well do me a favor, can you mention the website, because we I meant to ask you that, but let's get that out there for anybody who wants to get into this, for anybody who wants to subscribe and read the magazine.
Speaker 2:Most definitely it's wwwmensgriefsupportorg. You just go there, go to the shop, and then you'll see everything lined up there, and so you just go there and pick out which one you want. You can either do a monthly subscription for the digital or the hard copy. You can do a six-month subscription, which actually the six month and the 12-month subscription on both offers a discount. And so you know, once you get signed up and everything, we get everything out there to you and we're going to make it work. But also, you know, for those out there who would like to donate, I did include the donation there I was being very resilient in the beginning because I'm like, no, keep your money.
Speaker 2:But then I'm like you know what? We definitely need the help in order to keep doing what we do. So if people want to go donate, they can. You know, a dollar goes a long ways, and you know, and we just appreciate people's support Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for mentioning that. Like I said, I meant to ask you before we got so wrapped up in the conversation. I didn't ask you to put the website out there. I'm glad that you did and, as you said, thank you to everybody out there who's already been supporting. If you have not yet been, if you have not yet had a chance to check out the magazine, to check out Tony's website.
Speaker 2:Please go there and check it.
Speaker 1:I'm also going to put the website in the show notes as well. I appreciate that. I definitely appreciate that. Sorry to have knocked that off course. I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, brother, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:I definitely appreciate that and also shameless plug.
Speaker 1:That's what this is for. You are in the spotlight today. You get to shamelessly plug whatever you need to plug.
Speaker 2:This is for. You are in the spotlight today. You get to shamelessly plug whatever you need to plug. It is just one more. You know for the podcast. So people that know me know that I'm a podcaster as well, and for those that don't, then you know, I want to make sure, or at least let them know. Come check us out on YouTube. It's called the Grief. Let's talk about a podcast. We do live streams. We do daily live streams. We do daily live streams.
Speaker 2:This time of season, people are getting sick, so we're not doing as many as we would like to do and everything, but we are bringing them in as people are starting to get better. People are coming back. Hey, tony, I'm feeling a lot better. Let's get it on. So, just like yourself, brother, we talk to people from across the world to bring information, inform people and showcase those individuals out there. Right, and these are just efforts that we do. Also, my new resilient man support group. We are in-person. We're going to change it to hybrid, so it's going to be virtual as well as in-person. But we also offer that in two different languages Spanish as well as English, so we have an interpreter. All these different things. So we're doing these things and this is a program that I wrote and put together and it's designed to help men navigate this world of grief man. Like I said, it's just one step in the right direction and an encouragement for other people that want to do what we do.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that you're doing so much. You've been in this field for years and you want to talk about resilience. In the few months that I've known you, you have just been picking up so much steam, so that is a fraction of everything that you have been doing. I know personally that you have a lot of plans in the near future. Everybody's going to find out about that in good time, but I'm so honored and proud to be part of this with you. Oh, man.
Speaker 2:The honor is mine because, you know, when I first started this, nick, six years ago, people looked at me, right, and there wasn't too many people that was taking me serious. I started this six years ago on social media, as a matter of fact, right before COVID. It was always a talk, it was always a thought, and then finally, I just pulled the trigger and didn't know what I was doing. Right, you know? And by me being an introvert, I started off as a matter of fact, but I didn't even have social media before all of this. I really didn't. I wasn't on Facebook, none of that. I was like I'm good with that. I used to go in and check it out, but then, after that, I was like, no, I didn't want to do it. And so when I first started, somebody was like, as a matter of fact, somebody posed the question to me do you have any of your social media? I said no, what do you mean? Well, you need Facebook, you need Instagram, you need LinkedIn. I was like I don't want to do any of that. I'm such a private guy, right?
Speaker 2:One conversation led to another and I got introduced to some people and they set me on a path to where I started meeting so many other people. Then here I am in the community, right, and I just followed the path. Then I got on social media and I'm looking at all of these amazing people that I really just wanted to learn from and they all shut the doors on me. They all shut the doors on me. Man, I was like man, you know, no matter what I did, hey, you know, I'd love to work with you and learn more about what you do, you know, because I am still fresh off in the game, you know, and I really just wanted to learn. I'm looking for some mentors or at least somebody that could give me a hand up, you know, into the field.
Speaker 2:Man, for a year and a half, people just shut the doors in my face and finally I was like you know what, no matter what I do, it's not working. And so after that I said you know what I'm just going to do me, and that's where Memories of Us really started to dig its heels in and begin to go from the infestates and begin to develop some legs. We began crawling and stuff, and once I really just started doing, I just went in, created stuff, do this, that and other. I just still didn't know what I was doing, but I knew I was going to do it. And then I started doing virtual support groups and then COVID hit and I really just looked at the opportunity. Something switched. I was like this is the perfect time, this is the perfect time to get the name out there to do something. And I did, and it just kept going.
Speaker 2:And after a while, those same people that shut the doors in my face were those same people that came back and was like hey, love what you're doing. And I didn't treat them the same way, because I don't treat people that way. Back was like hey, love what you're doing. And I didn't treat them the same way, because I don't treat people that way. I'm like, yeah, I would love to work with you, I would love to collaborate with you.
Speaker 2:Then the podcast came and I realized that I love having conversations with people and over a period of time it just morphed into something good and I look back on it now and I get to sit down with people like Nick and so many amazing people that are doing some big things in this world. And you guys inspire me. I'm always working hard because I'm like man, you guys inspire me. Why not? Right?
Speaker 2:But there's a there's an underlying reason why I do it as well is because and I say this again, I always stay true to this I look for ways of supporting us in this field because we are important and we deserve to have a light shined on us. And you know, and the other part of it is that it's not about me, it's so much bigger than me. It's about our communities. It's about what we can provide for them but also build a good life for ourselves as well. Right, and this is my way of saying, I want to give you what was never given to me, which is I built a platform and with everything that I do, I'm reaching back and I'm grabbing those people and pull them up on a platform and go see the world from this point of view, right here Now. Look at your path and explore it. Go out there. We're going to be here together.
Speaker 2:Right, because I want to see people at the top of their mountains. Man, I want to see inspire the generation coming behind us, because if we can set the bar really high, we're going to inspire them to do better than us, and if we can get an impact. Can you imagine if we inspire them to do bigger things than us. That's amazing, that is truly amazing, and so that's the purpose, man, that is the reason, and so, you know, I'm looking back on it now and it's humbling, because it wasn't easy.
Speaker 2:I'd be alive if I told you that it was easy, man. I've gotten my butt whipped every step of the way, on top of dealing with my own grief and address my own traumas and learning to be a student as well as a teacher, so I can be better at what I do. And I'm not trying to be the best out there, especially, you know, I'm not trying to compete with nobody, I just want to be the best at what I do. There's a number one spot in my lane, and that's what I'm going for, right? I want others to look at their lane and go. That number one spot in your lane, that's the one I want you to shoot for.
Speaker 1:And I do everything I can to get them there. Everything. We've talked about this before. I've said it before in my show. I have always believed that and I know you've agreed with this the only person that any of us ever need to try to be better than is the person that we were yesterday. I don't need to be better than you, you don't need to be better than me. We need to make each other better. We need to push each other to be better.
Speaker 1:You've said how, in the six years that you've been doing this, there have been a lot of people who have been there to guide you, to help you, and early on, there were also some people who said, nah, I'm not helping this guy, I got my own shit to deal with. And I will say that there have been a very few people who I've experienced the same thing with, who just either will kind of give me the brush off kind of an answer or won't respond at all and all right, fine, whatever it is. And if I ever get to have conversations with those folks, then that would be great. But for the meantime, I've also learned that for the very small number of people who just decided that they either don't have the time for me or whatever it is what it is. I'm going to keep moving forward. I'm not letting that discourage me, the same way that you didn't let it discourage you. I have also been incredibly blessed by so many people who have taken the time, people like yourself and other folks that I have spoken with on the show, that I've spoken with off the show, that are much more established and have a huge thing going, and did they need to take time out and make time for me? No, did they. Did you? Yes, and why? Because of the overall mission, because you want to help people and because you want people like me and others to help people.
Speaker 1:Podcasting is not a competition sport. We're not Joe Rogan here. We're not top 10 in the world podcasts. We need to see our mission through. We need to do the best that we can. There is plenty of room for all of us here.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to compete with another podcast. Yes, we're in the same lane. You and I are both in the grief area. That doesn't mean that I'm trying to compete with your podcast. I'm trying to help your podcast. I'm trying to work with you so that we can both get there, because why would anybody say that just because somebody's listening to my podcast, they're not going to listen to yours, or because they're listening to yours, they're not going to listen to mine? That's a joke. That's not true at all. Exactly, it's up to everybody to decide who they want to listen to, who they'd like to listen to and who they won't. And I'm never offended when somebody doesn't end up listening long-term to my podcast. One, because there's a million other things to do and two, because people have lives. If somebody wants to listen, I'm going to be here.
Speaker 1:Everybody knows where to find our dead dads on apple or spotify or amazon or whatever, like when they want to come back, they will and they can, because I will be here and you will be here and we're going to. We're not going to stop, we're not going to wait. We're going to keep going on with the mission. When someone is ready, if they need to take a break, or if they just don't have time, we'll be here when they're ready. We're not stopping there. Who either don't actively listen to podcasts, or they don't know about me, or they don't know about you. Some of them, we'll get them onto our radar.
Speaker 2:Some of them, we won't yet.
Speaker 1:Eventually we might.
Speaker 2:We will. And I want to add to what you said, right, because I want to add a little bit of a challenge to people, especially to us as podcasters, right, right, I listen to podcasts all the time, from Joe Rogan, club Shade to Tom Bilyeu you know, you name it A lot of amazing people. They're like my solid mentors. Jordan Peterson I love listening to him, I love listening to David Goggins, I love listening to Coach Payne I love, you know, so many amazing people. But I'm looking at the podcasters and often, you know, I imagine myself being up there with the big dogs, right, the reason being because I see that they're reaching so many people. And I think to myself, like the one thing that I don't see, I don't see podcasts like ours up there Right, like ours up there right, and I go, I want to be up there alongside of them. Yeah, because I want those members, I want people to know who we are, I want to be ranked up there with some of the pod top podcasts. Oh, I'm with you.
Speaker 2:I'm not competing with anyone. This is just a goal. It's just a goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm with you. I want to be up there. Yeah, I agree with you. I want our dead dads to be a household name I want your podcast to be a household name. I want everybody to know that I'm here. I want everybody to know why I'm here. I want everybody to hear our dead dads and think god damn, that's a good podcast. You know exactly right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that guy is genuine, he's right yeah, because it doesn't matter who get up there, right? No sense, as long as one of us gets gets up there and gets recognized and then the world can see who we are. Because, for one, if if you get up there, right, I'm on your podcast people are going to go back in and go oh my god, who is this dude right? And so many other people it's going to going to shine a light on them Guess what.
Speaker 2:Now we get to come up and get a light shined on us and people know who we are. That is the way that we have to do it, and so I'm constantly looking at that. I'm like, okay, is my podcast good? I would like to say yes, but then again, that's my own opinion. Sure, I need to go off of what people tell me, right? That's why I always ask my guests how did you feel about it? Right? Is it something that you'd be willing to share across your platform, to get more out there? Right?
Speaker 2:And so I am just looking at it and going, okay, what is the next steps? How can I get to this point? And then, once I get to that point, like, I have goals for the podcast, I have goals for everything that I do, because, one, if I get there, it is another way that I can reach back and grab someone else. This is why I love doing like the videos, so people know who I'm talking to, Right? And that's why I'm a big, big supporter in promoting yourselves. So if I get up there and I get 8 million views on it, that's 8 million people that get to see Nick, that's 8 million people that get to see all the other beautiful, amazing guests that I've had on. Shine a light. Right, let's get up there Right, and that's the mission, right. I'm not competing, but I am challenging myself and again.
Speaker 2:I say this there are 8 billion people in the world, things like that and hone in on their crafts, man. Because man, look, that spot up there is screaming for someone like us to be up there in it, why not, and you know what?
Speaker 1:I think it's going to happen at some point. I think that this type of a podcast, a grief podcast, right now it's not a top thing because there aren't people who have that. Well, first of all, there aren't people who have that huge name recognition that are doing this type of a podcast. Second, grief makes people fucking uncomfortable. Talking about it makes people fucking uncomfortable. Everybody is of the mindset of yeah, do we? Do we really need to talk about this? God damn it. Yes, we need to talk about this. It needs to be front and center in everybody's lives because, even if you're not dealing with it right now, you're going to. When you do, you're probably going to need a little bit of a hand.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you said the key words right there. You know what I'm saying. It is such a universal, shared human experience. Yes, yes, it should be really talked about on a level that should blow your fucking mind. Yeah, right, you know what I'm saying. There should not be a household that you can go into where the families aren't talking about what's going to happen if I pass away.
Speaker 2:Well, how do you deal with the loss of your mother, your father, your sibling, your spouse, your son, your daughter? Right, you know what I'm saying. It all should be talked about. And the reason why I say that? Because, for one, I wish I had someone to talk to me about all of those different things. Yeah, honestly, the only loss I've never experienced was loss of a spouse. Right, and I do everything I can not to complete that holy trinity, right, you know. So you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:It may sound strange, but I do avoid a lot of things like no, I do that to say this, you know, because there is a side of me that goes. You know what? I would love to find somebody who can deal with me. For the most part, my life is not for the weak of heart. I deal with grief all the time. There are times where you know where I may be gone for 36 hours just going around, you know, talking with men, supporting these men, et cetera, right, there may be times where I'm gone for a month at a time, traveling across, doing guest speaking, helping other people start their organizations, books, things like that, right, and my travels would take me all across the world, yes, and having someone that can support that but also understand that I am constantly healing. So having someone else with the mindset of you know they've been healing themselves and you know and don't mind that I'm building something beautiful, I'm building the legacy and want to be a part of that, is always a deep embedded dream. Now, will it happen? I don't know, but I'm okay with that, right. But, yeah, man, um, trauma, all of those things. I wish there was somebody that was there to help me navigate that. Well, because it was.
Speaker 2:It was hard. It was hard holding myself accountable for the things that I didn't know, the people that I've hurt in my life because I didn't know, the things that I did to myself because I didn't know and just in the name of survival. Right Now, I don't regret my path whatsoever. I think I've had a very interesting, beautiful life, but I've lost a lot of people you know what I'm saying during the course of time and the only way I knew how to navigate it was being alone. And I've been alone for a very long time and I've always learned how to survive, no matter where I was, and I was good at it.
Speaker 2:The hardest thing I've ever did was switch my mindset over and go. I'm tired of surviving. I want to live, I want to build a good life for myself and I want to do good in the world. That was the hardest thing I ever did Not to get mad or upset for people for the roles that they've played in my life, but also understand a profound truth in my life that maybe I'm the seasonal one in people's lives. Maybe I'm not somebody's forever right, but maybe I can be someone's season Right In a way to where I can give them my gift and help them navigate their world until I'm called to do something else. So a lot of different things that come along with that.
Speaker 1:That's fucking deep man. That's a lot. It can be. Come along with that. That's fucking deep man. That's a lot. It can be. It can be.
Speaker 1:When I was previously single, it definitely went through my mind about am I ever going to find anybody who's going to be willing to put up with me, who wants to be with me? I wasn't even in the grief field at this point. Luckily, when I met Kim, we were both at a point in our lives where neither one of us were really expecting anything and we found each other and we just were obsessed with each other from the beginning and it has been an incredible life since then, and she is totally the only word that I can use is totally. She's completely supportive of everything that I'm doing and she knows that it's a lot doing all the interviews with the podcast. All the work outside of that has to be done with the podcast, because it's not just as simple as do an interview and sometimes it can't like. I know that you do a lot of live interviews and I think that at a certain point it is something that I am considering switching to doing live interviews, that this way they will require less editing and I can focus more time on other things Until then. There's a lot of time that gets invested in this, there's a lot of work that gets invested in this, and I'm very lucky that I have somebody who is as supportive as she is for what I'm doing, and she knows that when I go into something, I will occasionally go all in and if it's something that I believe in, if it's something that I'm passionate about, if I was going all in on playing video games, then we'd probably be having a different conversation. Very true, that wouldn't exactly be productive for my time or our marriage, but this is definitely something that I have believed in since I started it early this year, something that I've become incredibly passionate about, and I want to continue doing that. I also want to find ways that I can continue doing a lot of the things that I'm doing, and maybe not being so all-encompassing with our time, because I do have a full-time job. This is basically my second full-time job, but I'm loving it and, at the same time, I still need to find the balance, because I don't want to drive her crazy at the same time while I'm doing it. Very true, very true.
Speaker 1:I'm so fortunate, I'm honored, I'm blessed to have been linked up with the people that I have in this field, with you and with so many others, because I could not do it on my own. I've learned so much since I've been here. I'm constantly learning. Every day that I'm doing this, I'm learning other things. I have apparently been teaching people things which I guess is also a good thing. You can be the student and the teacher at the same time. We all can learn from each other. It doesn't matter if you've been in this field for six months, like I have, or six, like you have, or other folks that we both know who have been in this for double digit years. We are all in this together.
Speaker 2:I love that you said that because it's absolutely true. I've talked with people from across the world, from New Zealand to China, hong Kong, vietnam, you name it. I've probably been there Paris, italy, germany, uk, you know and once in a while well, not very often, but once in a while I get those people that think that their blueprint, or the things that they learn, has to be the, you know, has to be the one-stop shop for everything. Right, they got the blueprint to it and I've had conversations with these individuals.
Speaker 1:I'm like really.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I don't do it intentionally, it's just my nature. When people do that, I'm just like I'm going to challenge this just to see where you are, and not saying that I'm anything special, but there's sometimes where people just need to learn a different perspective about how to do things. I'm a firm believer in pivoting learning how to pivot in your work, right, especially when you're dealing with people, when you're dealing with people that have gone through some of the most horrific things, especially in my case with men, right, everybody has a different personality. So, no, then, my approach is very diverse and it all depends, you know, on the situation. What they're going through is how I can speak, and then, as they begin to grow and heal, then my conversation kind of changes. They keep helping, guide them Right, and so and like you said, sometimes, well, a lot of times you have to be the student in order to be the teacher. Yeah, when those moments come, you have to determine what role that you need to have in that moment.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right and go in it with an open mind and an open heart to be able to learn some things that you may not ever, you know, had to explore. I learned from conversations that I have with people. That's why that's one of the main reasons why I really love doing the podcast is because I'm a student. In that time, I'm in your world right. I'm learning about how you dealt with the things that you've gone through right and, prime example, I've lost my son right At the age of eight years old, so I never got the chance to see him become the man that I saw him becoming.
Speaker 2:I got the glance to see part of it and he passed away at eight. And I've talked to people that have gone through similar things that maybe their child they didn't make it past three and sometimes they didn't make it past 21, et cetera, right, and so I listened to him. I really listened to him, and so I listened to him. I really listened to him and it teaches me how to approach situations with people that have gone through similar things, because I couldn't tell you what it was like to see my son become a teenager. But if I could learn from someone and come across someone, I know how to sit in that space with them, right, and to let them do what it is that they need to do moving forward. So everything, nothing is ever wasted. No, you know. And so, when you look at it from that perspective, you will always be evolving in this world of grief, as long as you're willing to surrender to the process that you have to go through to be what you're called to be right, and that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:It's a really beautiful thing. You don't have to. What this process has taught me, what this podcast has taught me, is that I don't have to have had similar experiences. Now Kim and I try as I've mentioned many times in here, kim and I tried to have kids of our own. It didn't happen. We're not the first couple. We're not the last couple. It is what it is. I will never experience what it's like to lose a child. I will never experience a lot of the things that the wonderful people that I have spoken with on this show have experienced.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to cure anybody. I'm not trying to be a therapist. I have said that a billion times. I'm not trying to fix anybody. I am trying to provide a platform for someone to talk about their experience. I am trying to be somebody who can hold space with that person during that conversation so that I can learn from them. Just because I haven't experienced losing a child doesn't mean that there's nothing for me to be learned by having a conversation with somebody like yourself or with anybody else who has lost a child. We can all learn. You said it. You need to. In order to be the teacher, you have to be the student. There's a lot of things that I'm trying to be a student of so that I can help other people. And again, never trying to cure people. There's no cure. No, there is no cure. There doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1:There's just people that care. Yes, right, and that's where I come in. I don't need to be somebody who has lost a child, or somebody who lost their dad to a drowning accident or had a drug addicted, schizophrenic father who was physically and emotionally abusive, like some of the other stories that I've had in the past I don't need to have been through that experience to be able to hold space for that person can.
Speaker 1:But there are so many people that think that, oh well, I don't know anything about that, I can't do anything to help. The fuck you can't, right? Well, everybody can help, you don't have to have 10 years of school and a bunch of diplomas on your wall to be able to help a person.
Speaker 2:There you go. That's what stops a lot of people. That's what you just said, right there, right. So you know, like I said, you know, the only loss I've never experienced was a spousal loss, but I can talk about losing my parents. I can talk about losing my younger brother. I can talk about losing friends to homicides, overdoses, suicides. You know natural or unnatural causes, causes. You know from cancer to kidney failure, heart disease, all of these different things. I've experienced it. Right, yeah, but the problem is that you know a lot of people like say, for instance, for me, I understand my lane, I am good in my lane, I work with men and every aspect of it.
Speaker 2:If i't understand something this is the reason why I love having partners from across the world, because if I don't understand something or I feel that I'm not equipped, I know the best thing that I can do is that I have people that I can reach out to and say, hey, I have someone who is more of your area. Would you mind if I recommend them to you? Right, right, I know the damage that can be caused of holding on to someone and giving them information that's not going to be beneficial for them. So I am humbled in that way. I am blessed in that way as well to have those connections, and you said the right thing. It's bullshit that people don't take the time to understand. It doesn't take much to hold space with someone. It doesn't take much, and I think what happens a lot of times people don't really understand the concept of holding space.
Speaker 2:No-transcript. So be a visitor. If I come to Nick's house and I know that Nick is going through something, the first thing I'm doing is coming in your house. I'm bringing food. I got some Wendy's. I already know what you like to eat. Hey man, I'm going to stop over here at the fast food place, but what I did tell you is that I'm stopping at the grocery store too, because I'm already thinking you probably didn't get out the house. Didn't get out the house. So let me go get this. Let me get you some toiletries, let me get some hygiene product. Let me get you some food. Let me bring this on over here. Let me find out what you like to drink, whether it's soda pop, kool-aid, whatever right. I'm going to get this stuff. I'm bringing it to your house. So not only do I have that fast food you know what I'm saying that food that you can just sit down and eat, and things like that. But I'm already looking around your house to see.
Speaker 2:Maybe Nick didn't do his laundry I got you. Maybe Nick didn't do his dishes I got you right. Maybe Nick didn't clean up. You know what I'm saying, so I got that too, because when I'm coming in your house, I'm visiting right, you know what I'm saying and I'm going to visit to make sure that you're not worried about taking care of me. That's not your job. My job. Job is to take care of you and be in the same space with you. So I'm eliminating all of those things because the only thing I need you to do is sit down, maybe find a TV show, enjoy your meal right? You don't have to talk. I'm okay with not talking with you. Maybe that's what you need at that moment.
Speaker 2:We are so afraid of letting people have the things that they need without interference. Everybody always thinks that there's words that need to be said, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just your presence is enough, right. The willingness to allow me to just sit is enough, right? Another challenge that most people have when people start talking, they either cut them off or they turn it around and make it about them, and I tell people a lot of times. Sometimes it's good to shut the fuck up, right.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying? It's good to shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you don't need to say nothing, right? You know what I'm saying? It's good to just sit there because it has nothing to do with you. Don't you take away from what that person is going through? And I don't care who you are. You do not take away from what that person is going through, because society has already taught them that no one cares, and as soon as you do that, it takes away everything.
Speaker 2:When it comes down to men, you do that to me. I shut down, I don't want to open up to you, no more, because you just told me exactly what the world has always told me no one cares about what I go through. So why would I waste my time so you can just take it away from me? You're not going to allow me to speak, you're not going to allow me to get it off my chest. So fuck you. I'm going to sit around, but don't complain if tomorrow do not come for me, because eventually I may lose my fight with my demons.
Speaker 2:And just remember it didn't have to be that way. It didn't have to be that way. All I needed was somebody to talk to and you wouldn't allow me that one simple thing. So fuck you. You don't get to grieve over me when I lose my battle, and I tell that to other people as well. I tell people this all the time Don't be upset when it happens. It's not a matter of if it's going to happen, it's a matter of when, because there it's not a matter of if it's going to happen. It's a matter of when, because there's no coming back from that. What you did to that individual. You have to hold yourself accountable. Just remember you had the opportunity to change the trajectory of how this was supposed to go and, as profound as it sounds, sometimes people need to hear the brutal truth. Sometimes the things that you do is the reason why they made that decision. Don't be upset about it.
Speaker 1:Do better. Yeah, you know, it's funny when you said that we all scroll Facebook and Instagram and see all the videos and the memes and all that. And there was a video that I saw about a week ago. It was a clip from one of Dave Chappelle's shows and it was just like a I don't know 10 or 15 second clip and he it said well, here's another idea that could be really controversial. You could just shut the fuck up. It's so funny that you bring that up and I had just seen that and it's true.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you the best way that you can help a person is to just shut the fuck up. Don't if the person wants to talk, but let them talk. Don't be the controller of the conversation. Let them talk, figure out what the person needs and, as you said, maybe they need to say nothing, maybe they just need you to, as you said, be a visitor, just be there in the space for them. Sometimes they don't even need that.
Speaker 1:There are plenty of times that people have told stories about how they have gone to someone right after grief and brought them food or brought them groceries or whatever, and the person would say I really appreciate this. This means a lot. I can't really do this right now. I need just a little bit of time. Just give me a day or two and come back and we can talk more. You know, right now I'm not ready.
Speaker 1:If they're not ready, don't force it. And you're not forcing it by just showing up and coming with food or coming with groceries. That's not forcing it. That's being present. That is something that people that are grieving need, and a lot of people don't understand that. Don't just wait for someone to say, hey, can you come by, maybe bring food. Don't wait, just do it. If they aren't ready for you, they'll let you know. And then you say, okay, no problem, give them a hug. I love you, I'll talk to you soon, I will come by tomorrow. Say that. Don't even say let me know if you need something. Say I'll come by tomorrow, I'll come by in a couple of days to check on you.
Speaker 2:I want to add to that, because I'm not going to give you the chance to deny me, right, I need to come over and let you know that I'm thinking about your ass. Yeah, I'm knocking on your door, like when I call you. When I call you, I've already taken the initiative to go to the store. Right, I got bags in the car. I already got the food from the Wendy's or McDonald's or whatever. I'm already on my way.
Speaker 1:Well, in that case don't even call, Just show up.
Speaker 2:I'm just letting you know that I'll be there in like five, okay, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Surprise? No, because, for one, I know you know I have a better understanding of what you're going through After the funeral and everything that's when people, when everybody leaves, right? You know what I'm saying. You probably got a whole refrigerator full of tuna salad and lasagnas and all of these different things that you're not going to eat, right? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I am coming to let you know that I am thinking about you first and foremost. Secondly, I'm letting you know that even after everyone is left, I'm still here to support you, to make sure that you're doing okay. I want you to come to that door. I want you to get mad at me because I showed up unannounced. When I say I'm calling, when I'm calling you, I'm already five minutes away. If I'm not already walking up to your door, you're not going to turn me away because, for one, I got bags in my hand. You don't want this food to be outside getting spoiled. You're going to open up the door and I'm coming in right and I'm going to give you a hug Like go ahead, sit down. Man, I got you, let me go put this away for you right, that's right.
Speaker 2:I'm no longer giving you the opportunity to sit in silence and struggle through this Because, for one, we are human beings Right, we're human beings and I want you to know that somebody cares about you, that gives a damn about you, so it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm not giving you the opportunity to to we don't have to go. I'm not giving you the opportunity to sit and wallow and beat yourself up. I'm not going to do it. I need to know that you're okay. I need to know that. I need you to know that I want to see you tomorrow and the next day after that. So, if I have to come to your house two weeks in a row, if not longer, if I have to, whatever I need to do to make sure that you know that I care about you, I will annoy the shit out of you. Right, I'm annoying, I will be Tony.
Speaker 2:Look, man, you've been over here every damn day, and I'll be over here every damn day after that too.
Speaker 2:That's right it don't matter what you say, I'm coming Right when your family call Tony, what is he doing? You're damn right. Your family have to call me to find out how you're doing, because you may not be answering the phone but they know I'm here for it. I am annoying because when you start feeling better and I can see you breathing and I can see you start cracking smiles and laughing and things like that, then I'll back off a little bit. But in that time that you need it, in that darkness and things like that, my goal, my job, is to walk with you to let you know that you're not by yourself.
Speaker 1:Let's take a quick break and have a few words from our sponsors. Our Dead Dads podcast is sponsored by Kim Gaylord Travel. If you can dream up the vacation whether a getaway for you and your other half, a family trip or a trip for a large group she will help you plan it. If you've never used or even thought about using a travel agent for your trips, you really should. Kim will help you plan everything the flights, hotels, transportation, excursions, all the places to visit and all the sites to see. You'll get a detailed itinerary of everything and if anything goes wrong during your trip, you have someone to contact. Whether you're looking for a customized European vacation, a relaxing stay at an all-inclusive resort, an Alaskan adventure, a Caribbean cruise, kim will work with you to make sure you have a seamless travel experience. Contact her today and plan your next trip with a peace of mind that only working with a travel agent can offer. And, as a special bonus for our listeners, mention Our Dead Dads podcast for a 10% discount on planning fees. You can find Kim Gaylord Travel on Facebook, instagram and LinkedIn, or email Kim directly. Her email address is kim at kimgaylordtravelcom.
Speaker 1:Our Dead Dads podcast is sponsored by Dotted Avenue Creative Studio. If you're looking to build your first website or give your current site a facelift, you need not look any further than Dotted Avenue Creative Studio. They will work with you to customize exactly what you want in a website. Whether you want something personal and simple or a website for your business, you're in the right place. A professional-looking page that you and everyone who visits your site will be obsessed with. Search engine optimization, e-commerce all the bells and whistles. If you haven't already checked out OurDeadDadscom, you should take a look, for a couple of reasons. First, because there are a lot of really cool features to check out, including some interactive sections for the listeners, but also because Dotted Avenue built this website. They work exclusively within Squarespace, who is the hosting company of our website, and customize your website exactly the way you want it, and then, when it's done, you'll have a one-on-one Zoom call to learn everything you need to learn about maintaining the website yourself. Go to dottedavenuecom and get started today. Mention our dead dads and get a 10% discount on any web design package. Dotted Avenue Creative Studio is the first, last and only company you'll ever need for website design. And now back to the show In the immediate time following a loss, no matter who it is, no matter why it happened, no matter how it happened.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of people there. People come together right before the funeral, people come together for the wake, people are there for the funeral and then people go back to their lives. And I'm not putting blame on people for doing that, because, unfortunately, I'm not putting blame on people for doing that because, unfortunately, the world doesn't stop. Everything continues. We all have to continue. But what people really need in times like that is exactly what you've said they need someone who can be there, who can hold that space, especially if this is a really intense grief situation after everybody is gone. That's what is needed. So, yeah, look for everybody who's out there. If you live anywhere close to where Tony lives and you need a friend, then you make sure you connect with Tony, because he's going to bring a fucking bag of groceries over to your house and he's going to annoy the shit out of you and he's going to make sure that you're okay.
Speaker 2:And those are all good things.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's exactly what he's going to do, and that's. Those are all good things to do. That's right. That's exactly what he's going to do, because that's the kind of person that he is, and I'm not just saying that to blow smoke up his butter or yours as the listener. I'm telling you as I have gotten. I've had the honor to get to know tony in the last few months, before we are having this particular conversation today. This is who tony is. He's not fucking around here. He's not trying.
Speaker 1:We're not just saying stuff for the sake of a podcast interview. This is real human emotion that we're talking about. This is real life. This is the way it is and everybody needs to be on board with this, because we're all going to lose people. We're all going to know people who lose people. It doesn't take much to help somebody through a hard time For anybody who thinks it does. You just don't know, and that's okay if you don't know. That's why we are doing shows like this to educate people and help everybody to understand just what the fuck is going on in my head, in your head, in everybody else's head. If you don't know what's going on in other people's heads, then just listen for a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's okay that you don't know what's going on but it's not okay if you're not willing to put in the time to listen and understand what is going on in somebody's head. You can't help somebody if you don't know. And again, it's okay if you don't know, but if you're not even willing to try to get to the answer, that's where the problem is.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, in human nature, right, we get taught certain things and we encounter certain people. There's people who just think that they just know it all. Those will be the people that you will most often encounter. I know what's best for you, right? You know what I'm saying. You need to go out and you need to do that, I know, right. You know it's good for me, right.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. I've been through this before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been through this before, right, you know what I'm saying. Come on, man, we encounter these people. Unfortunately, these are the people that will show up that think that they know everything that you need and everything that you're going through, and oftentimes they're just making the situation worse. They will piss you off, right, or you get those people that mean well, but they say some of the most stupid shit. Right, and don't get me wrong. Look, and I say that with all due respect, but they do say a lot of stupid shit, like they may compare your loss to the loss of a pet. Now, a lot of it's perception versus reality. The perception is that they think that it's the same. The reality of it is that may be all that they've had, right? You know what I'm saying. You may have grown up in a single parent household and you come around somebody who's lost both parents, right, and they will compare their loss to yours.
Speaker 1:I don't fault anybody. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I didn't make that up, I don't fault anybody for not having a particular experience. Again, I will never be in the position of having lost a son or a daughter. We don't have kids. I can't lose what I don't have. We have a cat, Maxie, who I've talked about many times on this show. There's pictures of her on a couple of the episodes. She is 18 and a half years old. She's very healthy. She's probably going to live to be 100. No, I'm kidding, I joke that we're going to keep her around until she's 30. But I mean, I think maybe like three dozen cats in the world have made it that far. Every day that we have her at this point is a gift. Like she's incredibly healthy. She's active. In fact. Actually we were bringing in some furniture from outside the back deck for the, you know, because of the hurricane coming in a few days. I think that a little lizard because we're in central Floridaida, a lizard must have gotten it because you know she's.
Speaker 1:Generally, I compare her to yoda in star wars because like she, you know, like 900 years old and moves slowly, but every time the lightsaber turns on he turns into a fucking beast. He's like doing backflips and he's jumping around, he's going crazy and then when the fight's over and he wins, then he goes back to, like you know, moving slowly. A lizard must have gotten in, because she went into kitten mode and she's snaking through the table and the chairs and she's chasing. So I couldn't find it, but she was chasing something. So she went into one-year-old Maxie mode instead of 18-year-old Maxie mode, and she does that every now and then. When that little girl is gone, she's our baby. She is, we live for her, she owns this house. We just pay the bills. And that time comes where she is no longer here. I promise you that day I will probably be inconsolable. It's going to be so brutal. Everybody that I know who doesn't have human children, who have pets yes, they are our children.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean.
Speaker 1:But that's what I mean.
Speaker 2:You just said it, right there.
Speaker 1:Right, but here's the thing. This is where I'm going with this. They are our children. They are entirely dependent on us.
Speaker 2:That being said, me losing a cat does not equate to you losing your son or anybody else losing their child. They're similar, but it's not the same. I'm going to have to push back a little bit, right, because you said some things and I'm not disrespecting you whatsoever, I'm just bringing a different perspective to it. That's your family, oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:She is family.
Speaker 2:That is your family, listen to me. So it is comparable.
Speaker 1:It's comparable, but it doesn't mean it's the same.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be the same. You feel this is your family, right, right, this is your family, so you take care of that individual, you love that individual, you nurture that individual. Right, it doesn't have to be compared to losing a child or anything like that.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't need to be. But the problem is some folks do it Right and some folks will make that comparison and they'll say, oh, I know what you're going through. I lost my cat. Like no, I will never say to somebody I know what you're going through. I've lost a pet that I've had for years.
Speaker 2:It's perception versus reality. It's perception versus reality. Now, if you said that, and the way that you come across it, the way that you said it would be how people will perceive that information. Now, I never take away anything from anyone. That's why I said no, don't do that, Because it does feel the same. It hurts.
Speaker 1:Oh it does, it's going to hurt, it will.
Speaker 2:Right. So now, understanding that aspect of it, I go, and it took me a long time to get my head wrapped around it. But then there was a more deep, embedded understanding when I understood where people was coming from. Right, because I used to go man, I can't believe this person says some stupid shit like this. I can't believe this person. But then I started thinking I go, they're relating to me the best way that they know how, although it may be your pet, this is still your family. So they're coming now there's ways to approach it to where you can take the understanding of having that loss, of losing a family member and we're not going to separate it because it's still losing a family member and you can take that experience and you can use it in order to be relatable to the person that you're talking to.
Speaker 2:Right, look, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The loss is still important. I would never take nothing away from anyone, for the simple fact of if I took that away from someone, it can have very detrimental results.
Speaker 2:Last thing I want right, because I don't know how you feel about it. I just know how you compare it. So that gives me an idea of the depth that it goes to. And so you know who am I to say well, it doesn't compare to this and doesn't? It doesn't have to compare. It's the relationship we, as human beings, we have to look at those different things. Just because we may have had more than some you know what I'm saying it doesn't mean that we've had more than most. It's the relationship that we have with those individuals or the pets and things like that. I've met people that have lost goldfish that tore their whole world up right, you know what I'm saying. Does it make it any less? No, it really doesn't. That person cared for that goldfish. That person cared for everything, right, and so it's our job to let them have that, without putting somebody down, without coming back at them and go, no, don't do that, just have a conversation with them. Right, that's that they can, or what they have right.
Speaker 1:That's that they can or what they have right, and that's respectable, that they, absolutely those individuals, even had the balls to come and say something about that, yeah, the people that had the balls to even start the conversation, because that is the one of the biggest problems right now is that so many people will not even begin the conversation. That is why we are stuck in this problem. That is a big part of what folks like you and I are working to change. We're trying to provide this platform so that people can talk, so that people not only feel like their story is important, but knowing that it is important. Yes, they need to know that, whatever they're feeling again, we've said this before it is important, it is valid, it is necessary, it is all of the things.
Speaker 1:It is so critical that when somebody has something to talk about, they talk about it, because that's how you get through something by holding everything in, by saying nothing. That is how you get buried further in grief. That is how you get driven down the rabbit hole of depression and potentially other harmful things. Whether it's substance abuse or whatever the case may be, depression is dark, fucking area. Now look, I've been to some bad places. Fortunately, I have never, ever, been to a place where I ever considered that this world would be better off without me here, and I am so grateful for that because I know people who have been to that place. I know people who have taken their own life. You've been there. You and I have talked about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brother, that's a dark place to be in. It's, oh my God, it's such a dark place and I will tell you, I'm sure it is part of the journey with you. Yeah, I want to say if you're willing.
Speaker 1:I know that we've been going on and on for over an hour and I could talk to you all damn day long. This is your story and now that we've covered all of that, if you're up for it, I would love for you to talk about some of what you have been through, some of the loss, some of the dark places that you have been to in the past that have gotten you to where you are today.
Speaker 2:Of course, I started at the beginning right. So at the age of six years old I was molested by my neighbor's son. My mom was best of friends and I learned very quickly how to protect myself. It happened twice. The third time I tried to kill him and then it changed me. It really changed me to where I. It was like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde On one part of my life.
Speaker 2:I was my mama's son. I was my daddy's son, straight A student in school, you know, couldn't do no wrong, dressed like a nerd, you name it, high, GPA, whatever, and things that my mom thought I was outside playing with the kids. I was selling drugs, getting involved in fights. I started getting involved in the games and I got really good at selling drugs and fighting. And so when I got good at selling drugs, I got good at selling guns. It wasn't. I did that for a few years and my mom never even knew, because you couldn't tell my mom that I was out there doing anything wrong because she would never believe you. Oh my God, my son, no, he still draws, he still. You know what I'm saying. He loves drawing, he loves his sister, he loves riding his bike, he loves, you know skateboarding and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all of those things may have been true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they weren't true, right, yeah, you can love your sister.
Speaker 1:You can love drawing, you can love skateboarding, you can love riding your bike, but there were a few other things that you loved that she didn't know about.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. I lived in a world to where I understood that there was people that were capable of doing really bad things, and I figured I was like, well, if I got to be a beast in the world, I might as well be a beast in the world. Right, you know what I'm saying. So if you want to try to get me, I'm going to get you type thing, the survival of the fittest. I did that for a few years until the reality of my life finally came around when I was 15, when I shot two guys at school and my mom was like huh. I said yeah, my mom had suspected it, but she never really knew. And then the police tried to bust me and my mom was like huh, and my dad was like I fucking knew it, I just couldn't put it together. And my dad was like I fucking knew it, I just couldn't put it together. And I was like yeah. So I held on to that.
Speaker 2:I eventually left home at the age of 15 and moved to Washington DC and I was there from 1990 to 1992. I moved to Colorado when I was 17. I had my oldest daughter. I almost killed the guy because he was trying to start a fight with me. He was a game-banger, but he didn't realize I was a game-banger too. I was just living a different life. I had a little girl, I had a family and I wanted to just take care of them and he got in between me and them and I beat that man half to death in front of them and I had to walk away from my family because of that. Because I knew right then and there deep down inside I knew the streets weren't going to let me go. Now the streets didn't let me go. I walked away from him.
Speaker 2:I ended up going to prison in 1994 for a crime I never committed, but I took it as a slap on the wrist because they didn't catch me for the things that I did do. And I got out in 1999, the end of 1999 and the early 2000s. I was shot 22 times for some things that I did do and I wasn't even mad. I was like, oh, I was shot 22 times for some things that I did and I wasn't even mad. I was like, oh, I was mad that they let me live. And so after that it was like let's go to war.
Speaker 2:You know, and I've been set up by people that I thought cared about me. You know they set me up to get me killed by some rivals. I've been homeless over 20 times in my life. 20 times in my life I've seen people that I cared about die Kids, old people over some bullshit, right Over a color, claiming this and claiming that you know, throwing up gang signs and being angry and things like that. It's a lot of stuff man Overdoses, suicides, homicides. I've seen the police kill more of my friends than the streets ever could. I've carried them in my arms. I got blood on these arms when I've carried them to their family's house, like here's your son, here's your daughter, things like that. Or I had to go to those houses and go hey, you're the mom of such and such. Yeah, your son's over there.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:he's there, I'd have to walk away. It was crazy. Been there, done that. Let's see, like I said, I've been homeless 20 times. I've been in a narcissistic, abusive relationship with my son's mom and everything. And, yeah, she taught me a lot. For two and a half years she convinced the state of Colorado that I was a fugitive dad, and the state of Colorado believed her until they realized that I wasn't the crazy one, right, you know. And so I had to bounce back from that.
Speaker 2:A bunch of times, man, I've I've had, I've been put in some really dark places and I've had to fight back. Sometimes I didn't know if I was. You know there were. Sometimes I really wanted life to just stop wifing on me, just take me out, I'm tired, right. There's times where I wanted people to just kill me, be done with me, but I wasn't going to give it to them. You was going to have to earn it, right? You know what I'm saying? I'm just not going to give you my life and be like, yeah, do it. No, you're going to have to earn it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this isn't going to be a gift, right? And then, you know, when I had my son, I thought it was the best thing in the world. I was like it changed my life. I started going to men's groups because I need to learn how to be a man and you didn't need to be surrounded by good people, good men and so I did that and I changed everything. I had to work on me a lot, right. I had to figure out those things about why I was the way I was, and I wanted to be better for my son, and I was. I became really good.
Speaker 2:My son was six months old. I lost my dad to congestive heart failure. Three months after that, I lost my younger brother. He was 16. To a major 31st of 2015, which is coming up on his anniversary. My son suffered a major overdose because his pharmacist mixed his medication wrong. So for Halloween, you know, of 2015, he was in the hospital and the hospital mistreated us. They even came back and said, oh, he's not going to make it right, only to have him wake up that next, following Monday and you know what I'm saying, looking at me like that you know what I'm saying, what are we doing?
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, waiting for you, that's what I was waiting for. You know, happiest day of my life. He didn't remember any of it and I left it like that. He began to periodically remember bits and pieces and I've watched my son go through the seizures. I've watched him go through so much. I tell you what man, as a parent, that's something that you that when you see those things, it scares the bejesus out of you. I've never been afraid of anything in my life, but that moment, right there, I was afraid. I was afraid that I was going to experience that loss and when he came through, I was happy.
Speaker 2:Nine months later, he got sick, june 14th of 2016,. He got sick and early June 16th he passed away from unknown causes, and I was there when that happened. My heart broke into a thousand pieces and there was nothing else left of me, but I still had my mom right and I still had my sister and I used to call my mom. And then, two years after that, two years and one month after that, on June 25th, which is actually my grandmother's birthday, my mother passed away and I went through it. I lost everything. I had lost everything. I ended up moving out of Colorado, going to South Dakota, rapid City, with a female, only to find out three months later that she was a racist. I ended up losing everything, came back to Colorado, bounced around on people's couches, and this is where it gets interesting. This is where the path that people don't really understand how it comes about. Because I told myself I was like this is not going to beat me, I'm going to keep fighting, so I'm doing everything I can to. You know, I'm thinking I'm doing everything I can right, and not realizing how far down the rabbit hole I was going right, because life was lifing. I was like this is not going to beat me, so I'm doing everything I can. I got around some entrepreneurs was thinking about starting a company and everything. I'm just like all right, you know.
Speaker 2:And as time went on, I realized I didn't want to be here anymore. I was tired. I've been fighting my whole entire life and I was just done. And finally I was like you know what? I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it and I can convince myself that the world would be a better place without me. I was tired. I got bill collectors coming after me, man not having a place to be, not knowing where my next meal is going to come from, and things like the sad part about it was that I was working and I still lost everything. And things like the sad part about it was that I was working and I still lost everything.
Speaker 2:And I began going down that dark path and I began to think to myself, like how can I do this and not raise any sort of alarms to the people that are around me? And so I began to play 3D chess with people. I knew how to move people around and things, and they never even caught on to what I was doing. The hardest thing was going back and tell them that I did it. Then they realized they were like, huh, I was like, yeah, I did that.
Speaker 2:But I remember when I was already I convinced that I was just convinced that the world would be better off without me. No, I was a guy with no purpose. I wasn't even I'm not addicted to drugs. I wasn't. I've never done any hard drugs or anything like that. I hell. I hadn't even had a drink since my son was a baby and I stopped drinking then.
Speaker 2:So it was just me and my own thoughts. I think to myself. I'm thinking clearly not even understanding the grieving process, right, you know what I'm saying. But I knew. I knew that I didn't want to do it anymore and I planned it out. Finally got a weekend where I knew that there was not going to be anybody calling me.
Speaker 2:I paid up my car for a few months so I knew they weren't going to be looking for the car. It's not like I had much right, you know, because the things I had fit inside of a backpack by the time they even figure out what's going on. The animals been a torment part and there ain't going to be nothing else left. You don't have to do a funeral, don't have to worry about anything. It's just going to be a done deal. And I did. I drove out there to the middle of the desert and two seconds away to pull a hollow point. I remember picking up the gun and buying a hollow points. I said this is going to get the job done as soon as it hits. It's going to take everything out Painless. I'm going to be done. And two seconds from pulling that trigger is when everything changed.
Speaker 2:That voice came to say hey well, well, well, you know, we don't get to do that. I said, man, hold on. What do you mean? I don't get to do it. This is the one thing that I can control, that I don't need your permission for. Have you seen my wife? I done messed up and fucked up pretty fucking good. Right, I done fucked up pretty fucking good, man. I done lost everything. And you know what I'm saying. It ain't like that, I got anything. So it's not like anybody gives a fuck about me.
Speaker 2:And that's when everything started to make sense, when that voice said oh, you think that your life was about you? Hey, tony, you're not a victim. Your life was never about you. I go, well, it had to be about me. What about this? They go, yeah, well, you experienced that in order to help that young kid that's going through something similar. You mean, you're going to fuck me up so I can help them. Fuck you, right. And they were like, yeah, but you actually helped that kid out, and things like that.
Speaker 2:I said, well, what about this? Well, had you been stable, I wouldn't have been able to put you where you needed to be. And you, I don't need that. You know what I'm saying. And life, everything that I threw at it. It came back and gave me something different, helped me see life from a different perspective, and it said now it's time to wipe your forehead off and brush your knees off. Tony, you've been beat up long enough. Now stand up, take a deep breath and let's go this direction. I got something else for you, and at that time I didn't even know I was going to be in the grief field. But something said go find support. Right, Go find some support. I didn't realize what it was doing until I went to go find support and realized there was nothing for men.
Speaker 2:I was like huh, and I tried it twice I was like where's the men?
Speaker 1:at they don't come.
Speaker 2:And then it dawned on me oh, we need to fill in that gap. Why is there nothing for men? Well, men don't talk.
Speaker 2:Let me just test that theory a little bit. Let's see what we can do about little bit. Let's see what we can do. All right, let's see what we can do about that right. And my gift began to, it began to poke out and I began to attract these other men. And you know, in the most random ass fucking places grocery stores, you know I'm saying family dollar, the dollar tree, because I was always like trying on the move if I'm going to go somewhere, I'm going to get there, I'm going to get back, and they would catch me right then and there. And I would have these conversations in the middle of stories with these people. And I realized right then, and there I was, like man, do talk, my gift is different. Let me tap into that a little bit. And that's when the process started and I realized that I wanted to do more.
Speaker 2:And I remember this thing came over my heart and I was like I got to figure this thing out, man. And I remember standing around with one of my buddies in his garage and I was like man, I'm going to start a nonprofit. He's like what do you mean? I said I'm going to start a nonprofit. What are you going to do, tony? I think I'm going to start a nonprofit for men. And we started bouncing around names. I was like memories of me. And I looked it up. That was taken. Well, you know what I'm saying, men, you know I'm throwing out these different names.
Speaker 2:And then it dawned on me what is the one thing that men keep sacred, that we can protect at all costs? Because we don't carry around pictures of memories. You can't take that away, because if you don't see it, you can't use it against me. So I did, I started, I did that. I said memories of us, that's what we're going to do and that's where memories of us was born. So then I started thinking. I was like well, I'm an introvert, how am I? How the hell am I supposed to do that? Right? And like I said, it comes, one conversation led to another and I'm meeting some people and they introduced me to some more people and I started doing things in the community and then from there I got introduced to more people and now I am, you know something to say. Talk about it as if it already exists, right? And again, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. You know? And so I am Tony, what do you do? I work with men. I provide space for men to be able to grieve and we support them and things like that Wasn't even in fruition it to be able to grieve and we support them, and things like that Wasn't even in fruition, it wasn't even a reality at the time, but I spoke it like it was Right. And then from there I started meeting like congressmen and the mayor and the governor and things like that Tony, what are you doing? I tell them the same thing. I'm Tony. You know I'm starting a nonprofit for men Memories of Us where we provide support for men going through loss. Yeah, and then I started podcasting. So now, adding that into the mixture, yeah, I'm Tony. I'm the founder of Memories of Us Men's Grief Support. I'm also a podcaster where it's an effort to normalize the conversations around grief, trauma and mental health.
Speaker 2:I began to see the pieces fall into place. Then the next day, you know, I was like you know what? I'm going to get an office space. And I met my dear friend, karen and she's been rocking with me and I got an office space. Tony, what do you do? Same thing I'm Tony Lynch. I'm the founder of Memories of Us. I'm a podcaster. I do grief support for men. I would love to be in your office space so I can do some support groups in those aspects, and so I knew all of these different things. I was like, okay, in the grieving process, this is what men go through. So what I'm going to do is that I'm going to work with some other organizations to bring in these different aspects to help people deal with this from recovery, mental health, suicide, intervention, all of those different things. And I focused on the grief because I understood the whole person needs to heal and not just bits and pieces, and so that's what I did.
Speaker 1:And those same people. This is where it gets real interesting.
Speaker 2:The same people that I bought in to help me do these things were the same ones that stabbed me in the back, dragged me through the mud, lost everything again, bounced me around. So I didn't stop, I didn't even get mad at them, I just started laughing. I was like, well, time to get back to the drawing board and went virtual and things like that. And then, after a while, the people here in a space that now they came and said, tony, do you remember us? I was like, yeah, we got some office space. You don't have to pay anything, it's a free space that we provide for you. Would you like to come down here and start up your support groups? I said, man, this is a true blessing. This is years after.
Speaker 2:During that time I lost my friend and his family to COVID. I lost another friend to cancer. I lost his wife to fatty liver disease. I lost another friend to suicide, another friend to an overdose all throughout this whole course of building members of us. And then I got into this place and so many amazing people started coming around. It was like we've heard about you, you know, would you like to work with us?
Speaker 2:And I was like, man, yeah, and everything that went on behind the scenes as far as the social media and things like that, I didn't have anybody teach me how to do those things. I did it all on my own, and even the people that I had in the game to help me out with my podcast, they ended up leaving too. So I ended up starting the Grief let's Talk About it podcast, and that's when I got into the love of live streaming. And then I hosted my first ever conference, which was the Global Grief Conference, and I did it annually and I started meeting so many amazing people. So I became something different and I became an author and people used to ask me would you like to come do some guest speaking? I go, yeah, I've never done it before. Yeah, I'll pretend like I know how to do it. Then I would go up there and I felt-.
Speaker 1:Fake it till, you make it.
Speaker 2:Fake it till you make it right. And I did. And the crazy part about it was that I built everything that people see right now while I was homeless, everything that I did, from podcasting to building a nonprofit, to traveling around the world. I did. It broke Because I didn't ask anybody for anything, but I said, if you need me there, I'll figure it out, I'll get there. I didn't have a roof over top of my head or nothing. I've always just stayed with people and life started wiping on me. And I didn't have a roof over top of my head, no, nothing. I've always just stayed with people. And life started wiping on me, and I didn't let anybody know, but I took my ass with me. I took my ass with me, I learned the lessons, I humbled myself through humility and I said, if I'm going to do it, I got to keep going. I got to keep going and I did.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until just recently, until I started, until I revealed that I did everything that you see while I was homeless. And I tell you what I am so glad that I didn't stop. I am so damn glad I didn't stop because it's been a beautiful fucking journey, man, and I want to encourage other people out there that are doing it that say that, hey, if I can do it, I know you can, because you probably got more than me. You probably don't have to go through as much as I've gone through, and that's a blessing. But if you do, I would tell you don't stop. When life starts beating up on you, people around you start acting funny. Don't stop. Don't go back after them. Don't seek revenge. Just keep going. Keep a good head on your shoulders, right. Eventually it does work itself out.
Speaker 2:Six years later it worked itself out, so it's been six years of going through some of the most craziest shit in the name of just wanting to serve and do something good. Because the reality of my life and most people may not have to deal with this. I'm the oldest and the last of my bloodline, meaning that after I'm gone, there's no one else. My bloodline dies with me, and that's enough to say. When I die, when I take my last breath out of this place, I want to be an inspiration or an example for others to do better than me, to leave a legacy behind.
Speaker 2:So you know it doesn't matter if people remember me or not, but use what I've done to do better, right, and just remember that not everybody needs a handout, but if you are in a position to give a hand up, to do it. I've done everything and not asked for anything in return and I still don't need anything in return. I just want to give people something to look forward to, because I'm a nobody, I'm just a tony in the world. Man you I'm saying that found my gift and found peace and service to other people.
Speaker 1:You're a Tony in the world, that doesn't mean you're a nobody, though.
Speaker 2:I mean, let me correct that, right. I say that to say this. You know what I'm saying Because I get corrected on that all the time, and no harm when I say that.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I know exactly what you meant I'm just saying, you know, I know that if I had said it you would call me out on it and I would not doing it to call you out, just making sure that you know we are all on the same page.
Speaker 1:Right this entire story. You have overcome unbelievable odds, with everything that you went through as a child and then as an adult family, losing family, almost taking your own life and you are where you are now. The last fucking thing you are is a nobody. You are someone who is making a difference in so many lives. You're making a difference in your own life. You saw, whatever it took, even if you were getting a message that you're worth not doing this. You are worth more than pulling this trigger. You didn't have to listen to the message, but you did, and we know you did because you're still here talking to me and I'm talking to you. Had you pulled that trigger, had you really been convinced that you weren't worth it, that there wasn't a reason for you to not be around and to just be found eventually maybe in the desert, you would have done it. But you saw something. You got the message that was trying to get through to you.
Speaker 2:That's what it was.
Speaker 1:And you saw something. Something snapped inside of you to realize that you are meant for bigger things. And you're still here. You're doing those bigger things.
Speaker 2:I'm going to add to that, because I didn't see enough of this coming Right. You know what I'm saying. I really didn't. I did get the message. I wasn't totally convinced about the message. So I made an agreement with the world. I said, if this does not work, let me go please, because I don't want to do this anymore. And that was their agreement. I said, if this does not work, because I'm willing to follow this path, as crazy as it may be, but if it does not work, allow me to disappear. Let me go find myself a cave in the mountains. I won't bother nobody. You never even know that I was there. I won't even come down to go buy groceries. I'll get everything I need from out of the mountains. I go hunt right, I know how to fish, you never even know. And let me just live the rest of my life in solitude. And that's what I told myself.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't like I made with yourself, right.
Speaker 2:It was the deal that I made. If this does not work, allow me the honor of just being able to disappear, not mess with anybody not hurt anyone else. Right, you know, and I knew I didn't want to hurt anyone else, it just allowed me to just go right, I won't fuss, I won't fight, right Matter of fact, people don't even know that.
Speaker 1:I'm here, I'm going to go. How's that working out for you right now?
Speaker 2:You see how it's working out now. Right, you done. Pulled a Tony on me. How's that working out for you?
Speaker 1:Sorry, didn't mean to almost make you spit your drink all over the computer.
Speaker 2:That was good, because I was like no, he didn't. He just pulled a Tony on a Tony. Oh no, he didn't, because that's my favorite line of people. I'm like so how's that working out for you? Right? And they're looking like oh you dick. So, having you do that to me, I didn't have a choice but to start laughing like I was getting.
Speaker 2:But no, it's been this beautiful journey of just falling in love with this thing called grief man to understand totally what my gift is and the price that I've had to pay in order to get where I am, because grief is not one of those things that people just wake up one day and say that's what I'm going to do. Right, it came with a price and it still comes with a price, because I do. There are certain rules that I have to play by, learning how to shut my emotions off in order to be in space with other people. The hardest part about that is turning them back on right, but I spend so much time with other individuals that I understand that they're not showing up for my story. It's not even about me. It's about them Understanding that, with even all the losses and things like that and, as I said before, my life is not for the weak of heart Understanding and being accountable for the path and the relationships that I've destroyed and things like that, because I wasn't healed.
Speaker 2:But now, in the present day, having that profound reality that I may not be anybody's forever and I have to be okay with that. I am the seasonal one in people's lives. I am here to walk you to your next destination, but to give you everything without any expectation or any strings attached to give this to you but also to have rules, like when I do meet women and things like that. I have to practice discernment and listen to the conversation, because my gift is very profound and so a lot of times what I find that 98% of the time, women are trying to trauma bond with me. So I have to set a boundary and go. Okay, I understand what you're doing. This is where we're not coming. I cannot allow myself to be intimate with you in that realm physical intimacy but I can be intimate with you mentally and spiritually and emotionally because I can give you something to help you. As far as physically, I cannot do that because I would be for one. I would be a bastard if I did that and it'd be disrespectful to the person that you're actually supposed to be with, right. So I have to keep that in mind. I'm okay with that. But other than that, it's just understanding my role in this world, right, and what I'm actually called to do, and to do that wholeheartedly. And so I don't ask much of anyone in this world, except for when you get to a certain point, reach back and help the next person, because remember when you came, pay it forward, and pay it forward, because you only have one life and you will live it every day, but you die once. It's what you do before that, that in between those dates that makes a difference in the world.
Speaker 2:Treat people good and make sure people remember how you made them feel. People may not remember your name, they may not even remember your face. People will always remember the way that you made them feel. So make them feel as if they are important, that they are appreciated. Make sure you let them know that they are loved, and I think that's what my biggest understanding and gift to the world is. That right, and I do it every day. At least I try to.
Speaker 2:I try to be a good person every day. Do I fail? Sometimes I do, yeah, because there's sometimes where I'm just like, well, you stupid fucker, I'm going to punch you in your, because there's sometimes when I'm just like, well, you stupid fucker, I'm going to punch you in your damn throat. You know what I'm saying. So I'm perfect man, I'm not perfect, and there are times when I see females like you got to do better, you got to do fucking better. Stop, I don't want to hear all the Tony you dumbass. Did you not see what you just did? Damn, I have to go back and hold myself accountable for that too. Right?
Speaker 2:So I will forever be a student of this world. I'll forever be a student of my gift and I'll forever be a servant of the people and the communities that I care so much about, because I see the importance of our communities and the people that live inside of there, healing. I see that and I want so much for them to get to a point to where they can reclaim their humanity and be better versions of themselves, for themselves, for their families and for their communities. To each one we teach one, and in my world, just like how iron sharpens iron, women sharpen women, men sharpen men, and together it becomes a very dangerous sword that can be used for good to reclaim what's rightfully ours, the human nature, to become the best version of ourselves, to not be bound by certain things. But we got to start somewhere. That's my goal in this world now, just to keep doing what I do until I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you are well on the right path, for that you have been through more certainly than most you had, at least in your mind maybe not in anybody else's mind, but at least in your mind. You had every reason to get out, and yet you didn't. You're still here and you're changing lives. I know that's true. You know that's true. And you don't have to sit there and say you know it's true, because I know that everybody is their own worst advocate and nobody. Everybody can build each other up, but most people have a problem with admitting the worth of the work that they are doing themselves. Yeah, and so am I.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's okay, because I think we should be advocates for ourselves. We don't all have the ability to do it, for whatever reason. I know it's something that I have struggled with most of my life. My wife can tell you that I am not good at giving myself credit when I should be. Probably not because I'm Probably because I'm not doing something specifically just to get the credit. I'm just trying to do things to help people, which is why you're doing it as well.
Speaker 1:I know that I want it to help and, as we talked before, I know that I want to. I don't want the recognition of the work I'm doing, I just want to be seen by more people so that I can help more people. I just want more people to know about this podcast so that they'll come and they'll listen and they will hear the interviews I'm doing. Again, I'm not doing all of these interviews because I want people to just to know about me. I want people to meet you and all the other folks that I have already interviewed, and you know either the interviews that have been published, the interviews that haven't been published To me, that's who the stars of this show are, not just me.
Speaker 1:I want people to know about Tony Lynch and I want people to know about everyone else, and I want people to know about everyone else. I want people to know what you and others are doing to help this world, and I also want people to understand that when they are going through something, they're valid in everything that they feel and everything that they think. This isn't a game. This is real life.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And so many people, unfortunately, unfortunately just don't get that. They don't get it enough to to move forward with what they have to do. Sometimes people wait and, as we talked about before, people don't act and they find themselves in the hole of depression and they find themselves in a situation that they don't come back from. That is just not the place to be In this day and age. I believe that everybody can be helped. I don't believe that there's anything that is so horrible that you can't and I don't mean you, I mean anybody. I don't believe there's something that is so horrible that one cannot come back from it. There's always somebody, as bad as things get, there's always somebody who's in a worse situation, and that's true. Again, I've known people it is.
Speaker 1:It's very hard to see it.
Speaker 2:I darkness man.
Speaker 2:You know, but I think that's when we do the things that we do. We become that shining light so they can see in the darkness. We become that candle that they need. We become that hand that they can feel in the darkness, even when their eyes are closed. They can't, you know, and they don't see a way out. That's why it's important. That's why it's important for people to know who we are. That's why it's important. That's why it's important for people to know who we are, to know that even you know we have something that people can hold on to. We have a sense of strength.
Speaker 2:Some people that we come across have a very strong sense of faith and things like that, just looking to give up. We give them something to hold on to until they're able to develop their own right, and that's okay. I want you to hold on to whatever you see in me and capitalize on that, because it's yours, if you would like it, until you're able to stand up and you're able to breathe and able to find your voice. You know that's what we're here for and you know to be committed to. That is a huge honor and a blessing to even be considered for the role of doing something like that. You know, we may not always see it, but we don't have to. That's the beautiful part about it we may not always see it, but we don't have to. Everything life has a strange way of working itself out. It really does, it does, and that's a good journey, right there?
Speaker 1:It's one that I am proud beyond description. Dion, I'm grateful for the things that I have learned on this journey, the things that I have learned on this journey since I met you, and, as I said before, I'm not slowing down anytime soon. I have a lot of things that I want to do, and I know that there are a lot of things that I want to do that I haven't even begun to think of yet Exactly. That's okay, I'm open to all of them. That's okay, I'm open to all of them. Some ideas are going to be coming up, and some are going to be really good ideas that I'm going to pursue, and others are going to be completely ridiculous ideas that I might consider. And if they work out, then they work out, and I've been thinking about it for quite some time, and when I first started thinking about it.
Speaker 2:it just wasn't the right time. Then, all of a sudden, here it is. I'm going to do it. The right time came about right. So sometimes it's okay I mean a lot of times it's okay. Sometimes it's okay not to know why you have these things and just put them back in reserve till the time comes they're not wasted. It's just waiting, right, that's all that's it. They're not wasted. They're just waiting for the right opportunity to be introduced into the world. Then it's your job to do it.
Speaker 1:Well, there is that too.
Speaker 2:It's your job to do it. It's your obligation to put it into the world, because if you do not take responsibility for it, there's going to be somebody else that comes and do it, and then you're going to be mad because it was yours. Les Brown said, when you have dreams and things like that, the people that die with these dreams and go to the graveyard. A lot of times their dreams come to them and go. We came to you and you were supposed to put us into the world, and now we have to die with you. It is your job, it is your responsibility, when those things come to you, to put them out there, because they're yours and it's not yours to keep, it's yours to give out, it's yours to share everything that you do, all the things we yours to give out.
Speaker 1:It's yours to share Part of everything that you do. All the things we can figure them out, we can put them out there, but when they come to us, don't keep them hidden, don't hide it from the rest of the world. Get it out there.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's your job. You owe it to the world. Dr Miles Monroe he said I'm a huge fan of these individuals. He said your gift is not yours, so when I show up, you owe it to me. It is not yours, you owe it to me. So when I show up, you're going to have to move throughout the world as if you owe this to people. Because you do, you do. You don't get to carry that with you. Martin Luther King what did he say? He goes, a man and his gift will make room for him. And it's as if, even if you tried to hide and you went out to the middle of the woods, the world would still be the beaten path to your door. No matter where you go, your gift will always be needed and people will always. It'd be like a beacon for people. All it takes is one person to come knock on that door and after that everybody knows where you are right. You might as well work as if you're because you do it's not yours.
Speaker 2:I'm going to cut you out. I'm going to sit at your door all night long. You might want to open up the door. I'm not going anywhere. I need what you carry. I need what you carry. So you're going to have to get that to me, right, and when I'm done I'll leave right. But until that time, you owe me, you owe me, I move accordingly. I don't need food, I need what you're carrying. You was born to give that out. I'm going to need that. So that's the way I look at the world. When you show up, I owe what's inside of me to you, and so, therefore, there's not a question. There's not a question. I owe you and I move accordingly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even if you didn't realize what you owed the world and what you had to offer the world that day in the desert, you do now.
Speaker 2:Very true. This is very true. This is very true. Those are true words, those are facts and it's something that I cannot deny now. You can't, I can't deny it anymore when your natural time is up.
Speaker 1:Then it will be up, but at that point you will have left a legacy that is going to change lives. It will continue Well, not that it's going to. It will continue to change lives. It already has and it's going to continue to change it long after you're gone. Hopefully there are things that are going to help change people's perspective and make an impact long after I'm gone, but also, hopefully we're going to be around here for a lot of years irritating a lot of people, you know, showing up to doors with groceries and whatever it takes.
Speaker 2:Are you kidding? We just now getting started, man. We just got everything that we built back there is now starting to come into the light. We just not getting started. So you know, like got a lot more to do and I'm a father and I'm not going to leave this place until it's done and then, when it's done, I can hand it off to someone else. That's going to be better than me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even if somebody comes along while we're on this path who is better than us, then good, because we don't have all of the answers, nor should we. No, there's always going to be somebody that we're doing better than. There's going to be somebody who's going to do it better than us, even if it's somebody who comes along brand new and just has the mental capacity, or whatever you want to call it to figure out all the answers pretty quickly and just has the gift. There's going to be people like that, and that's okay too. Like we said, we don't need to be better than other people. We need to be better than who we were yesterday. We need to keep trying to do the best job that we can. Are we going to stumble? Of course we are. It's about are we going to get back up and are we going to keep moving forward? Are we going to give up? There you go. You've already proven why you don't give up. No matter how dark of a place you were in, didn't give up, and I for one, even though I knew what you had gone through before. We had this conversation today because you've told me, I am even more grateful that you didn't give up, because if you had, I never would have met you, you never would have become an author, you never would have become a podcaster, you never would have changed the lives that you are already changing. You wouldn't have changed my life.
Speaker 1:You are having impacts every day on people that you interview on your show. Whether they become ongoing, continuous conversations or if they're one-offs, they're still impacts. There you go, and it doesn't have to be a change that comes because you're having ongoing, weeks-long, months-long, years-long conversations with people. You can have that change with somebody after just one conversation. There are people that I have spoken with on my show, who I have ongoing conversations with, and there are people that I have the interviews with and I have barely spoken with them since, and that's okay, not for any bad reason. It's not because I didn't want to talk to them or they didn't want to talk to me. I mean, look, life gets in the way and, as you said, sometimes there are seasons and sometimes there are longer reasons. At the end of the day, as long as we are here for each other, as long as we are making the best difference that we can with the tools that we have, then that's what's important.
Speaker 2:My stomach is over here growling. I love tops. We could definitely do this again, but yeah, I definitely got to get something to eat. My stomach is like hey, Tony.
Speaker 1:Definitely. Yeah, you know what? Yeah, normally we do the rapid fire questions, but honestly, I'm with you. I haven't eaten lunch either, and it's almost four o'clock here and I love that. People are finding us and they're listening and they are spreading the word, and all I can say to everybody who is listening is thank you and please continue to help out and spread the word about my podcast, about Tony's podcast. Check out Tony's website, check out the magazine. I'm going to put all of the links into the show notes. Please check out everything. And again, there is a lot more coming from both of us. We're working on some projects together. You will hear about it in time. I mean, we're going to have a blast man, we're definitely going to have.
Speaker 1:We're going to have so much fun.
Speaker 2:I want you to get through the hurricane first and, you know, be safe through that and we definitely will pick up. We're definitely going to just keep going. Like I said, I'll get you into the GG and introduce you to some more amazing people and things like that. So, like I said, man, we're just now starting.
Speaker 1:My phone is freaking going off over here. Oh, smash that thing.
Speaker 2:My phone is freaking, going off the whole time. Everybody's like where you at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a few people have texted me too and I'm just like just turn the phone off, I don't even. I'm not even responding because some of those texts I know that are. They'll turn into longer conversations and yeah, I have to wait I'll text them back but these are.
Speaker 2:Well, I have. I put up a deadline for people for some of the stuff that I needed for the magazine, right? So that's exactly what they're doing. They're messaging me like hey, you, where do I send this to? I've already given it to you. Come on, just send it to the email and everything else. But this is holy crap. So all the stuff from the Global Grief Network, because I just now kicked that back off and everything. So I'm getting the emails in, I'm getting everything in. So I got to get that over there to the publicist so she can start putting that in the magazine. And then I got more articles which the article section for the magazine is already closed out. I think I got eight articles that we're going to be showcasing, and everything else turned out to be a lot bigger than what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2:But of course it's never a bad thing, right, we just put, we just separate them out and spread them out throughout the rest of the magazines. So always a good thing, it's never a bad problem to have.
Speaker 2:No, it's always a good problem to have Right, you know what I'm saying. And then, like I said, with you, send description, your logo, what people can find it, and we can get that into the magazine as well. I want this thing to be the biggest and hottest thing moving in the world, because it's informative, it's important and, you know, it's just another way to help showcase people, get the word out there. You know what I'm saying, always looking at those different directions about how can I be a better servant to not only just communities, but to the people that I'm around. You know, and this is just another effort in doing it, something's bound to work, something's bound to work, something's bound to work.
Speaker 1:It's going to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something's going to go viral in the world and y'all are going to see Tony be like, look at that, son of a bitch. That's right. But you know it's all about having fun and doing it and you know, uh, paying homage to those individuals out here to be able to do what we do but, most importantly, to keep reminding people that this is a team effort, you know saying don't look at what I do and go look what tony's doing.
Speaker 2:No, look at what we can do. Right, you know, saying we're all better. Right, yeah, together we can push the world and give an impact that will fucking rock the rock, those fault plates. They think that's a damn hurricane or damn earthquake coming. It ain't nothing but us stepping right, you don't say, all of us step at the same time in the right direction and every community out there going. It's time to get up, it's time to breathe. It's time to start healing. It's time to cut the ties you know, to make a difference time to make a difference, man.
Speaker 2:Change is coming yeah, it is in a big way, yeah, in a big way, man, and I'm here for it, I'm here, you're here, I'm here.
Speaker 1:We ain't going anywhere exactly.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna find myself a nice little island or something and put me a little rocket chair on the beach you know what I'm saying and go fishing and things like that. There you go, you know.
Speaker 1:So drink in one hand and drink.
Speaker 2:In the other hand, I don't drink, so you know what I'm saying. No, all right?
Speaker 1:Well then, you know what I don't know? We'll get you a cheeseburger in one hand and get you some shrimp tacos in the other hand to the shrimp, but the cheeseburger. I didn't know that you were allergic to shrimp.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm allergic to shellfish, right? Oh, all right, I used to eat shrimp and crab and clams and all that stuff when I was a kid. I grew up on the coast, but I'm allergic to all of that. But a cheeseburger in one hand, maybe. What can we put in the other hand? You know what I'm thinking about, know, maybe a flavored Sprite or something like that. We can do Sprite. Most importantly, I just want my fishing poles.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want my fishing poles. I want to be able to cast out. You know, sit back on and enjoy the cool breeze underneath the palm trees and stuff like that, you know, with some good people around me and lounging around, laughing with some good music, maybe. And lounging around laughing with some good music, maybe get some people out there to come do a whole little while. Maybe maybe we cook a pig on the ground. I don't know.
Speaker 1:We do so, we're gonna do so yeah, I know see, I got you the whole thing going on we went to hawaii for a delayed honeymoon in 2009 and when we were on, when we were on maui, we went to lahaina, which is one of the areas that was really affected by the wild, the big fires last year, which is recovering very well, fortunately. We went to the old Lahaina luau and it was just such a blast the way they unveiled. They were cooking the pig underground, oh my God, again, you know what? Yeah, go eat some lunch you as well. Brother, get yourself some food you as well brother.
Speaker 1:Again. You know what? Yeah, go eat some lunch, you as well, brother. Get yourself some food, you as well, brother. Do the same thing. Love you man. Love you man. Be safe man, please. We will, I promise Awesome, I will keep you updated and please, any of your family that's in the Tampa area aware if they're in a flood zone, if they are at all saying we're not leaving.
Speaker 1:We're not leaving. Please do it. If there's anything you can do to convince them to leave, tell them to get the fuck out because, like right now, we don't. It's three days away. We don't know exactly where the storm is going. I mean it could go north of tampa, it could go down to, you know, naples who the hell knows? But at this point, wherever it hits, it's going to be bad, it's going to be a perpendicular hit, it's not going to be good.
Speaker 1:And if it look, everybody's been saying tampa is overdue, it's. It's been a hundred years since tampa has had a direct impact hurricane and I I hate to see that. If this is going to be the time, but it's got to hit somewhere, I mean it has to. Unfortunately, if this is going to be the time, but it's got to hit somewhere, I mean it has to. Unfortunately, if it hits direct, like the worst case scenario is the eye of this storm hitting 20 to 30 miles north of Tampa, because then all the water from the winds, the way they're going, the winds that are pushing east, are going to push that water into Tampa Bay. It's going to flood. It's going to flood Oldsmara bay it's going to flood. It's going to flood oldsmar, the airport, all the areas around it. Like I mean as much as I hate to say, the best case scenario for tampa bay is that the eye goes 20, 30 miles south of tampa, because then it'll push the. The west winds on the north side of the storm would push the water out. But I mean like this looks like it's going to be another, at least Category 3 hurricane.
Speaker 1:So all I would say is wherever your family is, that's in Tampa, if they're close to the coast, if they're in an evacuation zone, tell them if they get evacuated. To fucking listen, because there are already more than 200 people that are dead from Helene. Most of them are up in Georgia and North Carolinaolina, south carolina, areas that nobody ever expected to be this badly impacted by a hurricane. We look, do we need it again? No, are we going to get it? Yeah, somebody's going to get it. So, yeah, that's the only thing I can say is wherever your family is, just please tell them to be safe. Try to talk some common sense into them if they're planning on staying, because this is, it is crazy. And look, people are going to lose houses. People don't need to lose lives.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately I hate to say it, man, but the impact of the first one and the people's lives that was lost. Hopefully we can learn from it. I hope so. Hopefully we can minimize the loss.
Speaker 1:We're going to pray for the survivors.
Speaker 2:We're going to pray that everyone gets out with minimum damage and we're going to pray that everybody keeps themselves safe, as well as their families and stuff like that, and pray that help is there for those that need it, for those that need it. And to ask people that, whatever you can do, they can donate it, they can come down and volunteer and things like that, that they do so right Out of the kindness of their heart. Just because it's the human nature, the human thing to do. It's good to treat people good man. It's good to, and especially us in the grief field.
Speaker 2:I don't know if people realize it, but we have become more in demand than we ever have been, because the world is grieving and they need good people to be able to help them. And so, you know, for those of us that are in this field, I pray that we are called to do what we need to do, and you know, and to do it to the best of our abilities. I do so. I look at all of those and I just pray that we can do that these people are protected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, geez, go answer your phone, go get lunch. I'm disconnecting the call.
Speaker 2:All right, I appreciate you, brother, love you man, and we'll talk soon all right, you got it.
Speaker 1:Talk to you soon and we'll talk to him. All right, you got it. Talk to you soon. Tony nearly gave up everything. He convinced himself that this world would have been better off without him. Thankfully, the voice that spoke to him convinced him that that was just not the case. Tony listened, he got his act together and he founded the nonprofit Memories of Us, the Global Grief Network and the Grief let's Talk About it podcast. This does not mean that he didn't have his own inner battles every single day. He does, and almost all of us do. But he now knows that his purpose is bigger than he ever could have imagined and he is living out his dream every single day.
Speaker 1:This didn't come up in the interview, but I'm going to put this out there right now. If you're having thoughts of harming yourself, if you think that you don't have a way out and don't have anyone to talk to, call or text 988 from your cell phone. 988 is the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline and they're there to help you 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every single day of the year. And if you don't want to talk to them, then get in touch with myself, tony, or one of many resources that are available to you. Talk to a friend, talk to a family member, a stranger, a podcaster, anybody. We are all here for you. If you need the help, please do not be afraid to ask for it, no matter how close you are to convincing yourself that the world would be a better place without you. It is simply not true.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining me and tune in next week for Justin Shepard's interview. This is the interview that was live on TikTok and YouTube last week and, in case you missed it, you'll now get to listen to it and hear Justin's story about going no contact with his mother nearly six years ago, being asked by his three-year-old daughter why she never met his mom, and the book that he wrote that tackles the delicate topic of family dynamics and the importance of setting boundaries in a way that children and adults can understand. Make sure you're listening to Our Dead Dads on your favorite podcast streaming platform, because you will not want to miss this episode or any other upcoming episode. This is Our Dead Dads, where we are changing the world one damage soul at a time. See you next time.